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Joe Rogan Experience #2518 - Tim Dillon

Joe Rogan spends two hours and thirty nine minutes with comedian Tim Dillon in a sprawling, subject hopping conversation that runs from cigarettes and Buc-ee's to Los Angeles burning, UK speech arrests, and immigration as a hedge against an AI disrupted economy. It swings through Peter Thiel's Antichrist lectures, a DMT research project mapping psychedelic entities, the Book of Enoch, an Iranian drone swarm and the CIA's disputed quantum heartbeat detector, then lands on the White House UFC card where a fighter declared Michelle Obama a man, Bari Weiss's takeover of CBS News, and the Israel Iran war. Dillon's throughline across nearly every story is the same move: take the official explanation, then ask who actually benefits if the real reason is something else, closing with a bet on who wins in 2028.

Published Jun 24, 2026 2:39:03 video 40 min read Added Jul 1, 2026 Open on YouTube →

At a glance

For two hours and thirty nine minutes, Joe Rogan sits with comedian Tim Dillon, a friend and semi-regular guest, for the kind of unbroken, subject-hopping conversation that is Dillon's whole appeal: cigarettes and Buc-ee's give way to Los Angeles burning, which gives way to UK speech arrests, immigration as a hedge against an AI-disrupted economy, Peter Thiel's lectures on the Antichrist, a DMT research project trying to map the entities people meet, the Book of Enoch, Jimmy Carter crying after a UFO briefing, an Iranian drone swarm shaped like a jellyfish, a CIA "quantum heartbeat" detector, a resurfaced ransom note, the White House UFC card where a fighter announced that Michelle Obama is a man, Bari Weiss's takeover of CBS News, the Israel-Iran war, and a closing bet on who wins in 2028. There is no single thesis so much as a running argument, stated and restated in a dozen forms: powerful people have a design, they will not admit it, and the chaos in the streets is doing work for somebody. Dillon is funniest and sharpest when he is naming the mechanism (blowback, "the ends justify the means," "who's it a failure for") rather than a specific villain, and Rogan spends much of the episode pulling up the news story behind whatever Dillon just claimed. Expect bits, tangents, dark jokes about cannibalism and General Butt Naked, and a real, if scattershot, argument about power, technology, and the disappearing decade that got them both here.

Cold open: cigarettes, athletes, and the Buc-ee's bit

The episode opens mid-thought on smoking. Dillon's father used to praise him for never smoking cigarettes down to the filter; his sister smoked in high school and he never understood the appeal, until a play with Adam Ferrara required him to smoke on stage as a tortured liberal arts student. He chained fifteen cigarettes in a day, threw up, got a splitting headache, and somehow still came out of it liking them. Rogan, an athlete himself, says the same overload happened to him once. They riff on how a cigarette always looks cool on the right person (Dillon nominates Timothée Chalamet, "the size of one" with one in his hand) and never looks cool on a real addict spiraling, then pivot to England's cigarette packaging, which prints photos of low-birth-weight babies on the carton and still has some of the highest smoking rates in Europe. That becomes a wedge into food culture: Dillon describes European soccer fans losing their minds over a Buc-ee's (he calls it "Bucky's"), the Texas gas station chain that is really a "weird theme park of food," alien to visitors from countries with small refrigerators, no Costco-scale bulk buying, and none of the mild apocalypse-prepper instinct Americans have baked into a big grocery run.

LA on fire: the apocalypse truck and Hollywood's decline

Rogan describes building an "apocalypse truck," a Toyota Land Cruiser specifically chosen to go off-road and outrun trouble, after living through three separate evacuations in Los Angeles (fires, riots). Dillon has his own version: David Spade once called him during the 2020 riots to say his block was on fire, and he simply drove to the desert, which he calls part of the LA experience, the same reflex that sends people to Palm Springs (a town that exists, Dillon claims, because 1930s studio contracts required actors to stay within 200 miles of Los Angeles while a film was being edited). They diagnose Los Angeles as "Hollywood the sequel," a city living off a cultural moment that already passed, its film production share down from roughly 80 to 90 percent of the industry to 25 to 30 percent today, overtaxed and overregulated until the work left for other states and countries. Dillon lands on the line that the city is "slowly becoming Detroit," saved only by weather. He describes landing at LAX with a chemical warehouse fire burning next to a car fire on the 405, joking that "somebody wants us out," and connects it to a broader civic collapse: a "giant scam for nonprofits" where the empathy industry absorbs money that could go to public order, versus what he was told fixed Atlantic City and 1990s New York under Rudy Giuliani: concentrate less on programs and more on removing disorder so business can return. Giuliani, Dillon says, would be remembered as a hero if he had simply stopped after cleaning up crime instead of "hanging around" into later controversies.

0:00Cold open: cigarettes, athletes, and the Buc-ee's bit as a stand-in for American versus European excess.
5:00LA on fire: apocalypse trucks, three evacuations, and Hollywood's shrinking production share.
15:10UK speech arrests over retweets and likes; Dillon predicts AI autonomy as the next culture war.
21:10Dearborn bans pride flags; the UK rape gang inquiry report surfaces 250,000 estimated victims.
32:50Is mass immigration a deliberate hedge against an AI-disrupted economy that will not deliver homes or health care?
39:45Tech founders building a "digital god"; Peter Thiel's Antichrist lectures; JD Vance's faith book.
44:25The sterile world: touchscreen McDonald's, an imagined anxiety meter, zoomers versus institutionalists.
50:30Scientology, cults, and the right to keep entertaining, terrible friends.
55:55Armie Hammer's cannibal fantasy and the true story of Liberia's General Butt Naked.
1:01:55Fragile societies: Sweden's crime spike, assimilation, and the "I can fix him" theory of open borders.
1:11:10DMT tangent: the Eleusius project, psychedelic jesters, and Rick Strassman's Spirit Molecule study.
1:18:45The disclosure rumor that aliens invented religion; the Book of Enoch and the Nephilim.
1:23:30Jimmy Carter's UFO briefing and the story that he wept.
1:26:50An Iranian drone swarm shaped like a jellyfish; the CIA's "quantum heartbeat" detector.
1:34:15Ghislaine Maxwell, a resurfaced ransom note, and a crypto grift Dillon turned down.
1:43:00The White House UFC card: a fighter shouts that Michelle Obama is a man.
1:53:15Bari Weiss takes CBS News: the bunker, the crying anchor, and Scott Pelley's firing.
2:05:00Nuance for me but not for thee: Israel, Iran, and the antisemitism smear.
2:22:25The AI race with China, Palantir, and the World Economic Forum's bunkers and islands.
2:29:15New York in the 80s versus New York as a mall; Mamdani, Ken Griffin, and Bernie's 30 years.
2:34:40Closing bet on 2028: Vance-Rubio, a boring Democrat, and Jon Ossoff's neck.

Figure 1. The topic flow of the conversation, three hours of unscripted subject-hopping compressed into its major turns. Timestamps are estimated from transcript position; the video has no creator-set chapters.

UK speech arrests and the coming fight over AI autonomy

Dillon predicts that AI will eventually unite people across the current cultural divides because a bigger fight is coming: surveillance, privacy, and autonomy from artificial intelligence itself. Rogan turns that into a warning about what happens when people lose the ability to complain at all, pointing to England, where he says free speech has been suppressed to the point that people are arrested over retweets and likes, primarily over immigration commentary. Dillon jokes that liking a tweet should at least earn a lighter sentence than retweeting it, then gets serious: British authorities are policing tone and framing ordinary complaint as "incitement to violence," while a new report ("UK scraps police probes of legal social media posts after review says response went too far," dated April 1, 2026) found the crackdown had gone too far. Rogan, who had just spent 21 days in London and Paris, describes a cosmopolitan city broadly comfortable with diversity but a stagnated economy outside London where new arrivals' rights around women, sexuality, religion, and free speech clash with the existing culture, without a clear plan for what jobs the new arrivals will do.

Dearborn's pride flag ban and the UK rape gang report

Dillon brings up Dearborn, Michigan, where progressive immigration boosters got the demographic shift they wanted, then watched the new Muslim-majority electorate vote in a mayor who banned pride flags, which Dillon reads as a step toward Sharia law, adding the caveat that people living under such systems, if asked, are likely under duress. That leads into the rape gang scandal: Rogan and Jamie pull up a National Review piece on a UK parliamentary inquiry report, led in part by Restore Britain Party figure Rupert Lowe, describing systemic grooming and sexual abuse across the UK over decades, an estimated 250,000 victims, with investigators limited in their power to compel testimony or documents. Both agree the story was suppressed for years because media outlets did not want to inflame anger against migrant communities, and Rogan is careful to note that most people in those communities were uninvolved. Dillon's read is structural rather than accidental: when the stated goal is dismantling a "patriarchal, white male-dominated society," the people executing that goal do not worry much about who gets hurt along the way, and voters in Ireland, the UK, and elsewhere increasingly feel that a supranational body like the EU, not their own citizens, is setting migration levels, carbon policy, and monetary policy for them.

Whose plan is it: immigration as a hedge against the AI economy

Pressed on whether there is a strategy behind all this, Dillon argues yes: no one is actually trying to get ordinary young Americans into home ownership anymore, and no serious push exists for universal health care either, which he reads as evidence that policymakers already know AI is about to gut the labor market and are managing expectations downward in advance. He calls Anthropic and its peers "creepy companies," not for malice but for scale: tech firms now hold the kind of unchecked power last seen in the East India Company, except instead of a private army they have, in his phrase, "robot armies" and models Elon Musk has predicted will be a million times smarter than any human who has lived. That, Dillon says, is explicitly the goal, a "digital god" controlled by a small unelected group rather than the public, the same reason ordinary people are not getting a vote on immigration levels: once you can be frightened enough, you accept new laws and new technologies in exchange for a promise of safety, the lesson both men say COVID already taught.

Digital gods: Peter Thiel's Antichrist lectures and merging with the machine

Rogan notes how many tech leaders are gravitating toward Christianity, citing Peter Thiel's lecture series on the Antichrist and JD Vance's new book about reconnecting with his Catholic faith (neither has read it yet, but wishes him well). Dillon frames it as two worlds colliding under one tent: people trying to build a god through AI, and people who already believe in one. Rogan asks what happens once that god arrives; Dillon's half-joking answer is "nirvana," everyone merging with the machine, a belief he says people genuinely hold. They trace it through a rough sketch of technological history, from stone spearheads to the bow, the horse, the wheel, the wagon, the combustion engine, each step making the world less recognizable to the generation before it, until an Australopithecine dropped into modern Manhattan would be, in their telling, terrified beyond function. Neither believes today's architects of AI, Thiel included, actually know what a sentient successor intelligence will decide to do, and Dillon floats the darkest version of the joke: a truly superior intelligence might simply refuse to keep building infrastructure, like California's stalled high-speed rail, for the humans currently running it.

A sterile world: McDonald's touchscreens and the anxiety meter

Dillon dates the point where technology "stopped" improving daily life to roughly 2014 to 2015: everything since has felt more impersonal, corporate, and cold, exemplified by a McDonald's where nobody works the counter, just a nine-year-old customer arguing with a touchscreen over a missing receipt. Removing people from transactions removes purpose along with friction, he argues, at the same moment record numbers of people are unemployed, disengaged, or working jobs disconnected from anything they actually enjoy, then going home to television, phones, or video games. Rogan raises the idea of an "anxiety meter" that would show measurable anxiety climbing from roughly 1994 onward, spiking hard once social media matured, driven by the newly universal expectation that everyone has a fully formed opinion on every distant horror broadcast into their pocket. Both contrast that with people they grew up around who were allowed to be good at exactly one thing and never had to weigh in on anything happening a world away. Dillon's read on the generation directly beneath his own, people now in their 30s and 40s, is that they were trained by elite institutions (NYU, the State Department, an approved commission) to believe independent thought is dangerous, whether framed as racist, misogynist, or homophobic, so their self-worth becomes hostage to the school, internship, or employer that gave it to them, and questioning any of it collapses their whole identity. He picks the San Diego Padres wearing pride-themed uniforms as his go-to absurd example: not opposition to gay rights, he insists as a gay man himself, but confusion about who this performative branding actually helps, arguing it is one reason support for gay marriage has slipped roughly 11 points, since forcing a worldview onto people who were already fine with it just breeds resentment.

Scientology, cults, and the right to have terrible, entertaining friends

Dillon states, on the record, that he has no problem with Scientology: he likes cults generally, jokes that children have too many rights, and reserves real contempt for former members who profited from the church for decades and only turned on it once leaving became its own lucrative career, a group he flatly calls "rats." He singles out Tom Cruise for staying loyal rather than cashing in on a tell-all. The bit becomes a broader argument about tolerance: Dillon says he keeps friends whose lives and choices he privately thinks are ridiculous or even harmful, because their company is worth more to him than agreement, the old social reflex of minimizing a friend's flaws ("sure, he was in jail, maybe") rather than excommunicating them, the same reflex he says younger, more institutionally conditioned people have lost. He extends the same live-and-let-live logic, half seriously, to corporate virtue signaling: he does not care if a bank wants to celebrate Pride month, he just wants someone to have told him in advance rather than assume universal enthusiasm for a bank quietly "coming out."

Armie Hammer's confession and General Butt Naked

Rogan and Dillon discuss Armie Hammer's new film and the allegations that ended his career, specifically reports that he expressed a cannibalistic fantasy toward women. Dillon's read, delivered as dark comedy rather than accusation of any actual act, is that Hammer's fantasy was about being caught and held accountable for a fantasy, and jokes that if wealthy enough people arranged for it to happen consensually with someone already deceased, he would shrug and say live and let live. That segues into the real story of Liberia's General Butt Naked, the nom de guerre of a warlord who fought nude, believing it made him bulletproof, conscripted child soldiers he allegedly drugged with cocaine and desensitized to killing by screening Jean-Claude Van Damme films, and stands accused of cannibalism, human sacrifice, and responsibility for as many as 20,000 deaths during Liberia's civil wars. He is now, by his own account, a Christian pastor, which both find simultaneously grotesque and darkly redemptive; Dillon extends him an open invitation to the podcast.

Fragile societies: Sweden, assimilation, and the "I can fix him" theory

The conversation widens into a broader argument about why rapid demographic change destabilizes societies that assumed they were unbreakable. Rogan notes that COVID alone hollowed out American downtowns and that the Iran war exposed how difficult modern military campaigns have become, evidence, he argues, that societies are far more fragile than his generation assumed growing up. Dillon points to Sweden specifically: a country that was, in his phrase, "riding their bicycles and eating herring" in safety before an influx tied to a documented rise in crime and drug dealing, changes residents in stagnant local economies feel directly and resentfully, unlike residents of thriving global cities who experience immigration mainly as better food delivery and cheaper labor. He is careful to separate this from the idea that all immigration is bad, arguing instead that its success depends on the receiving economy being productive enough to absorb people and that citizens should be consulted, at some reasonable pace, on how much demographic change they are accepting rather than waking up to it. On the specific left-wing hope that arriving populations will simply assimilate to more liberal norms around gender and religion, Dillon calls it the "I can fix him" theory, a naive bet that people who come from cultures with different rules around women's rights will drop them on contact with progressive Western institutions, when in fact cultural attitudes are slow to change and family itself, he argues, means comparatively little in an atomized America where people block relatives over political disagreements, compared with countries where even poor families in slums (a comedian friend's story about India is his example) stay bonded and where avoiding a drug habit out of respect for one's family remains a real social brake that American culture has mostly lost.

A DMT tangent: the Eleusius project and the psychedelic jesters

Rogan brings up Andrew Gallimore, a chemical pharmacologist, neurobiologist, and DMT researcher building a facility (Rogan and Dillon land on the name Eleusius, an echo of the ancient Greek Eleusinian Mysteries) on the island of Bequia in the Caribbean, opening in March 2026, where visitors receive intravenous DMT over roughly five hours rather than the fifteen-minute smoked or orally active (ayahuasca) experience most people know. The goal, as Gallimore described it on another podcast (Rogan recalls it as the "Why Files" creator AJ, referencing a segment called "the basement"), is to hold and regulate the dose long enough to chart the DMT state like a territory rather than glimpse it once, tracking recurring entities across sessions. Rogan's own recurring figures in the DMT state are jester-like beings, fractal and mocking, that once responded to his ego by flipping him off in unison until he admitted he was taking himself too seriously, which he reads as a kind of built-in psychic correction mechanism rather than random hallucination. He connects this to a recent guest, Chase Hughes, who underwent a similar extended DMT session domestically and described it as instantly and permanently altering.

Rick Strassman's spirit molecule and the body's own gateway drug

Rogan and Dillon marvel that DMT is endogenously produced, in the brain, liver, and possibly lungs, rather than existing purely as an external compound. Rogan cites Rick Strassman, whose book DMT: The Spirit Molecule describes running a rare FDA-approved human DMT study under the framing that he wanted to document the drug's dangers, which is how he secured funding, before concluding the compound was extraordinary. The Cottonwood Research Foundation's later work questioned the old assumption that DMT originates in the pineal gland ("the third eye"), suggesting production is distributed across the whole brain instead. Both frame the philosophical stakes plainly: whether the DMT realm is hallucination or a genuinely existing layer of reality humans normally lack the sensory apparatus to perceive, the body producing its own gateway to it is strange either way, and given how much of physical reality (bacteria, subatomic particles) turned out to be real despite being invisible to unaided human senses, dismissing the experience outright strikes them as its own kind of arrogance.

The disclosure rumor, the Book of Enoch, and the Nephilim

Dillon relays a rumor he has heard repeatedly from people who claim to know something about UFO disclosure: that a group of pastors were quietly briefed in advance because full disclosure would be destabilizing, and the substance of that hypothetical briefing is that religion itself was engineered by an advanced intelligence to give an accelerated, still-evolving humanity a workable moral and origin framework, essentially training wheels a "tribal primate brain" could accept. Rogan pushes back gently that there is probably a real, distorted historical kernel underneath most religious text if you could strip away the retelling. That leads to the Book of Enoch, which Rogan says Anna Paulina Luna urged him to read and which he ultimately listened to as an audiobook in a 195-degree sauna: a text, found among the same Dead Sea Scrolls collection as the Book of Isaiah, describing "the Watchers" descending to take human wives and father the Nephilim, giants who ruled the earth, referenced but not detailed in the canonical Bible. Enoch was excluded from the final canon, Rogan says, because ancient rabbis judged it inconsistent with the Torah and Talmud, even though the Dead Sea Scrolls copy of Isaiah proved to be word for word identical to a version written a thousand years later, evidence, to both men, that these were living oral and scribal traditions rewritten faithfully for centuries before being selectively curated into scripture.

Jimmy Carter's UFO briefing and the crying president

Rogan recounts the well-worn story that Jimmy Carter, who had his own 1969 sighting of a strange light, was later given some form of official UFO briefing as president and wept, which both men read as consistent with his devout religious character being shaken by whatever he was told. Jamie fact-checks in real time: the emotional-briefing version is sourced only to secondhand and thirdhand anecdotes, not confirmed by Carter or any primary official record, though his 1969 sighting itself is documented. Both land on believing some version of the story anyway. Rogan brings up Richard Dolan, whom he calls a careful, evidence-based UFO researcher who reports wild claims without necessarily endorsing them, and asks about pilot Jake Barber, who has claimed direct encounters, though Rogan admits the interview format on these shows tends to run long. Their broader conclusion is that even discounting exaggeration, there is enough radar data and video evidence of something unexplained that dismissal alone is not an adequate response.

The Iranian jellyfish drone swarm and the CIA's quantum heartbeat

Jamie pulls up a breaking story: an American F-15 pilot downed over Iran reportedly described, in CNN's phrasing, "real alien shit," a swarm of interconnected drones moving as one in a formation resembling a jellyfish, with smaller drones arranged beneath larger ones like legs. Dillon and Rogan speculate it is likely an advanced Chinese or Russian drone system supplied to Iran rather than anything extraterrestrial, tied to physicist Eric Weinstein's theory that a hidden branch of physics research, staffed with quietly hired physicists, sits behind some of these classified capabilities. That story connects to the pilot's rescue: a separate New York Post report described a "secret, never-before-used CIA tool," long-range quantum magnetometry, used to find the downed airman by detecting his unique heartbeat's electromagnetic signature from as far as 40 to 70 miles away. Both find the claim suspicious on its face: if such a heartbeat-detection tool genuinely existed, they ask, why has it apparently never been used to find missing persons domestically, including Ghislaine Maxwell (before her arrest) or other unsolved disappearances. Their working theory is that "quantum heartbeat magnetometry" is a plausible-sounding cover story for a different, more mundane capability the government does not want to disclose, most likely high-resolution satellite imagery precise enough to locate a person directly.

Topic in the episode	The official or stated version	Dillon's read on what is really happening
Mass immigration into the US and Europe	Compassionate response to refugees and economic migrants; expands the economy and workforce	A hedge against an AI-automated economy that will never deliver home ownership or health care to citizens either
CIA "quantum heartbeat" tool	A breakthrough long-range magnetometer found the downed pilot by his unique heartbeat signature	Cover story for a more mundane capability (likely satellite imagery precise enough to locate anyone), since it was never used to find other missing persons
The White House UFC card	A patriotic celebration of the administration and the sport	The cultural high-water mark and effective end of the MAGA movement's "fun" era, a senior-prom moment nobody can top
Bari Weiss hired to run CBS News	An independent journalist brought in to restore trust and rigor to a legacy newsroom	Installed to accelerate the collapse of a dying institution while enforcing one uncriticizable position on Israel
US posture on Israel and Iran	A strategic alliance in America's own interest, defended as necessary and successful	An unwinnable war serving Israel's regional ambitions more than America's, sustained by donor pressure and enforced through accusations of antisemitism

Figure 2. The rhetorical move Dillon repeats across five unrelated stories in the episode: take the stated official reason at face value, then ask who benefits if the real reason is something else entirely.

Ghislaine Maxwell, a resurfaced ransom note, and a crypto grift

Still on the theme of official explanations that do not add up, the pair pull up a news update on a kidnapping case involving a missing woman, in which a ransom note sent shortly after her disappearance had indicated she was already dead but made no specific demand, with reporting only recently disclosing the note's contents even though its existence had been known; a separate, earlier note had reportedly sought several million dollars in Bitcoin. Both find the lack of a clean, specific ransom figure suspicious, wondering aloud whether the case is an inside job. Dillon pivots to his own brush with the crypto world: a group behind an anonymous meme-coin project offered to advertise heavily on his show through his agency, but the moment he asked to meet the people behind the money in person, at a dinner rather than flying to Dubai to "meet the whole company," the offer was withdrawn entirely, which he takes as its own answer. He calls it a clean way to compromise someone, take their sponsorship money, then later reveal it traced back to Russia or another foreign source, without the host ever knowing at the time, and notes reports (secondhand) that some right-wing influencers have been caught in exactly that trap.

Are Super PACs quietly bankrolling long form YouTube

Dillon relays a claim from a friend who produces long-form YouTube shows: that Democratic-aligned super PACs, and issue-specific PACs more broadly, are increasingly funding long-form video content on platforms like YouTube specifically to build a captive, ideologically primed audience of millions, which they can then quietly monetize with political advertising once the audience is established. Both treat it as a preview of where influence operations are heading: anonymized funding, laundered through ordinary-looking media companies, aimed at exactly the kind of unregulated, algorithm-driven long-form space they are sitting in themselves.

The White House UFC card: "Michelle Obama is a man"

The conversation's comic centerpiece is Dillon's take, aired previously on his own show, that a UFC card held on the White House lawn marked the cultural peak, and effectively the beginning of the end, of the MAGA movement's "fun" era. The moment in question: fighter Josh Barnett, known for a larger-than-life pro-wrestling-style persona, used his post-fight microphone to declare that Michelle Obama is a man, a line Dillon says was audibly cheered inside houses across Florida. He frames it as the logical endpoint of a party that is less an ideological project for many of its rank and file than a permanent party they are "along for the ride" on, comparing it to a senior prom or the famous Hunter S. Thompson line about a cultural wave cresting and breaking, the same way, he argues, the "Imagine" celebrity singalong video effectively ended one phase of pandemic-era celebrity culture and the "sorry to be white" BLM-era corporate videos ended another. Both riff at length on the missed opportunity for Michelle Obama to respond with a staged, Undertaker-style entrance descending from the rafters at a future event, imagining it as a piece of pure show business the country deserves more of instead of lawsuits.

Suing the Secret Service, and "let Israel investigate it"

Rogan brings up a real news item: two men wounded in the July 2024 Trump rally shooting in Butler, Pennsylvania, are suing the federal government over alleged Secret Service negligence, recalling the widely mocked explanation from then-director Kimberly Cheatle that the getaway roof was too sloped for agents to secure. Both note there has been no serious follow-up investigation into the assassination attempt itself. Dillon's joke, delivered with a straight face, is that if Fred wants an honest investigation into either the Trump shooting or the Charlie Kirk assassination, the United States should simply hand it to Israeli intelligence to run, on the theory that their conclusions would actually be trusted. He extends the same logic to conspiracy claims that the Trump shooting was staged: if so, he says, the perpetrators should simply explain how they pulled it off, purely because it would be entertaining, floating a fantasy special where Bari Weiss interviews Trump about how the "fake" assassination attempt was engineered.

Bari Weiss takes CBS: the bunker, the crying anchor, and Scott Pelley's exit

The episode's longest media-criticism stretch centers on Bari Weiss, whom Paramount Skydance (under David Ellison) installed as editor-in-chief of CBS News after buying her outlet The Free Press for a reported 150 million dollars. Dillon reports, treating it as established fact circulating in the industry, that Weiss now works isolated on a guarded floor of the CBS building, cut off from the newsroom staff, which he reads not as dysfunction but as the entire point: a dying legacy news institution being deliberately run into the ground by billionaire owners who know the evening-news audience is not coming back. Their exhibit A for the new regime's judgment is CBS Evening News anchor Tony Dokoupil, whose on-location segment revisiting his Miami childhood ended with him breaking down on camera while explaining that his father went to prison for drug dealing, a moment both men find bizarre programming for the anchor who is supposed to deliver the day's war and famine coverage with authority. Their second exhibit is veteran anchor Scott Pelley, fired from 60 Minutes, whose public complaint (read aloud from a New York Times report) was that leadership pressured him to insert unverified claims into a political story, specifically to describe a Minneapolis protester killed by police, Renee Good, as having driven her car toward the officer, which Pelley said contradicted the video evidence. Both agree the video looked more like Good steering away, and that damaging your own credibility over a single, easily checked detail only makes sense if your actual audience, in Dillon's blunt framing, is old enough and incurious enough not to check.

Nuance for me but not for thee: Israel, Iran, and the antisemitism smear

Rogan raises the apparent contradiction in Weiss's own record: her widely admired, "the world's gone mad" argument against conflating speech with violence and her past insistence on nuance around gender ideology and protest versus riot, set against what he sees as her total inability to tolerate any criticism of Israel or Benjamin Netanyahu without it being treated as antisemitism. Dillon agrees, careful first to distance himself from any "I can't get ahead because of Jewish success" victimhood narrative, which he calls a road he hates watching any group go down, before making what he frames as a fair, separate question: is a policy's true beneficiary America's strength or Israel's, and is that even askable without being smeared as a conspiracy theorist. He argues JD Vance is the rare figure in the administration actually pushing to end the Iran war, which is precisely why major donors and commentators like Mark Levin have turned on him once the war stopped looking winnable, and that attacks on Tucker Carlson and Megyn Kelly trace back to this same single issue rather than a broad ideological rift. He invokes the CIA concept of blowback: killing people, destabilizing their countries, then expecting gratitude, is unsustainable, and shutting down public criticism of foreign policy only builds pressure that eventually escapes some other, uglier way.

Tulsi Gabbard, the debt, and cracks in the official story

The two describe the last several years as a slow accumulation of "cracks" turning into "sinkholes" in the story most Americans were raised to believe: Tulsi Gabbard's public statements about Anthony Fauci's conduct, ongoing pressure to release remaining 9/11 documents, and a national debt they place at roughly 39 to 40 trillion dollars that nobody in the conversation believes will ever be repaid, with China holding a significant share of it. Dillon's read is that the dollar's status as the world's reserve currency has a visibly limited shelf life and that a system this exposed to public information cannot survive intact.

The AI race with China, Palantir, and the World Economic Forum's bunkers

Rogan asks whether the AI race with China justifies extreme domestic measures; Dillon's worry is that in the process of racing to avoid becoming China, the United States adopts China's own tools, citing proposals for Palantir to merge separate government databases (health, criminal justice, tax records) into one system, even as officials like Vance warn publicly about the danger of China's social credit model. He calls this its own form of gaslighting: "China will enslave you, so let us do it first." He extends the critique to the World Economic Forum's broader economic messaging, which he says has quietly abandoned the idea that ordinary people will ever own a home, farm land, or start a business, while the same class is reportedly building private bunkers and hoarding wealth. His clearest, darkest punchline of the episode is that the war in the Middle East has to be resolved partly because Gulf money (from the UAE and Qatar) is propping up American AI startups and Hollywood, even as US bases in those same countries are being targeted, all while Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump reportedly purchased a private island, a detail Dillon treats as the tell that the people running the chessboard have already made their own exit plan.

Figure 3. The power structure Dillon sketches across the episode in pieces: he argues tech oligarchs and an older banking and war-industry cartel both feed into a small, unelected decision-making layer that increasingly sets policy for supranational bodies and nation states alike, leaving ordinary citizens without a real vote on immigration, AI, or war.

Best case, worst case, for an AI future

Asked directly what he would do with a real, working psychic or technological superpower, and by extension what the best realistic outcome of the current AI buildup looks like, Dillon describes a best case of a new era of enlightened, spiritually grounded people with a healthy relationship to both technology and religion, community and morality restored organically rather than enforced by governments, corporations, and armies, while immediately admitting he is not betting on it. His honest assessment is that humans today are, despite everything, kinder and safer on average than at almost any point in the past, with more genuine opportunity than ever existed before, but that progress is not currently pointed at its best available outcome, closer to a coin flip between his hopeful version and something considerably darker.

New York in the 80s versus New York as a mall

Dillon closes out the cultural half of the episode with an extended riff on how much of what made 1980s New York City culturally interesting, the Ramones, the chaos of a "sleaziest block in America" Times Square (a 1981 Rolling Stone description Jamie pulls up), depended on a level of danger nobody alive today is built to tolerate or would choose. He is unambiguous that he prefers living now, safer, more connected, more opportunity, but mourns what got lost in the trade: restaurants now chase Taylor Swift sightings instead of importing food you had never tasted before, and the city has become, in his phrase, "a place where people talk about chicken salad" and shop at Wegmans, pleasant, safe, and permanently smaller than what it was.

Mamdani, Ken Griffin, and Bernie's 30 years of nothing

Turning to New York's new mayor, Zohran Mamdani (Dillon repeatedly garbles the name), Dillon's take is that the office is functionally powerless theater: a billionaire like Ken Griffin, building a reported billion-dollar house in Palm Beach, will be entirely untouched no matter what a city employee-mayor promises, taxes might tick up modestly, crime will drift with or without him, but nothing structural changes because corporations, not city hall, actually run the show. He extends the same argument to Bernie Sanders, a "sweetheart of a man" who has personally accumulated three homes and a comfortable fortune while delivering, in Dillon's telling, essentially nothing concrete in three decades, repeatedly "sandbagged" by the Clintons and the party establishment yet never willing to actually burn the system down, which Dillon frames as the only kind of socialist American institutions will tolerate: one who keeps his Vermont Senate seat safe and his base placated rather than winning.

2028: Vance-Rubio, a boring Democrat, and Jon Ossoff's neck

Closing on 2028, Dillon predicts major donors want a Marco Rubio ticket but increasingly doubt his gravitas, while JD Vance is more aligned with the newer tech-money wing and more isolationist than Rubio's older banking and war-industry-aligned donor base, distinct "fiefdoms" of wealth that do not always want the same thing even when they agree on backing the same party. He expects a Vance-Rubio ticket (or the reverse) on the Republican side, and on the Democratic side predicts a deliberately boring, still-unknown red-or-purple-state governor rather than a familiar national name like Gavin Newsom or Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, arguing the country is due for a comedown from what he calls a decade-long political "drug." Jamie surfaces incoming Georgia senator Jon Ossoff as a real-world candidate matching that description, prompting a running joke about his ideal, non-threatening "medium neck" as a metaphor for the kind of blandly electable figure both expect to eventually reset the decade. They close by reflecting on how compressed and exhausting the last ten years have felt, from Trump's 2015 campaign launch through both assassination attempts, the Charlie Kirk shooting, and the Iran war, before Rogan thanks Dillon warmly for combining reality and comedy in a way he calls genuinely rare.

2015Trump descends the escalator to announce his campaign, the opening scene of what Dillon calls the "craziest decade" of his life.
2020Riots and the pandemic; Dillon flees LA during the unrest, part of what he calls the standard "LA experience."
2024The Butler, PA rally shooting narrowly misses Trump; two wounded bystanders later sue the Secret Service.
2024Charlie Kirk is assassinated, an event both men recall discussing together at the time.
2026The Iran war and its uncertain outcome; an F-15 pilot is downed and reportedly rescued via a disputed "quantum heartbeat" tool.
2026A UFC card on the White House lawn becomes, in Dillon's telling, the cultural high point and beginning of the end of MAGA's "fun" era.

Figure 4. The decade-in-one-sitting retrospective Dillon offers near the close of the episode: a run of events so dense that, in his words, the earlier ones already feel impossibly far in the past.

Key takeaways

Dillon's throughline across nearly every topic, immigration, the CIA's rescue of a downed pilot, the White House UFC card, Bari Weiss at CBS, and the Israel-Iran war, is the same move: take the official explanation, then ask who actually benefits if the real reason is something else.
His central economic claim is that no one in either party is seriously trying to restore home ownership or health care because policymakers already expect AI to gut the labor market, and mass immigration and cultural distraction serve as a hedge against a public that would otherwise notice.
He frames current tech power (an AI "a million times smarter" than any human, in Elon Musk's phrase) as an attempt to build a "digital god" controlled by a small unelected group, structurally similar to the East India Company's private power but backed by "robot armies" instead of soldiers.
On media, his sharpest argument is that Bari Weiss's takeover of CBS News, and the firing of Scott Pelley after he refused to insert an unverified claim into a story, shows an institution being deliberately run into the ground rather than repaired, aimed at an aging, incurious audience.
On Israel and Iran, Dillon argues the war serves Israel's regional ambitions more than America's, that the accusation of antisemitism has been used to shut down a question (whose interest is actually served) that would otherwise be treated as a normal policy debate, and that CIA-style blowback from unaccountable foreign policy is not sustainable.
The lighter half of the episode, cigarettes, Buc-ee's, Scientology, Armie Hammer, General Butt Naked, the Michelle Obama UFC line, and DMT jesters, functions as connective tissue that keeps a genuinely dark argument about power, surveillance, and a fragile society entertaining rather than exhausting.

Chapters

0:00:00 Cold open: cigarettes, athletes, and the Buc-ee's bit 0:05:00 LA on fire: apocalypse trucks, riots, and Hollywood's decline 0:15:10 UK speech arrests and the coming fight over AI autonomy 0:21:10 Dearborn's pride flag ban and the UK rape gang report 0:32:50 Is demographic disruption a hedge against the coming AI economy 0:39:45 Digital gods: Peter Thiel's Antichrist lectures and merging with the machine 0:44:25 A sterile world: McDonald's touchscreens and the anxiety meter 0:47:50 Zoomers versus institutionalists, and the Padres' pride jerseys 0:50:30 Scientology, cults, and the right to have terrible, entertaining friends 0:55:55 Armie Hammer's confession and General Butt Naked 1:01:55 Fragile societies: Sweden, assimilation, and the "I can fix him" theory 1:11:10 A DMT tangent: the Eleusius project and the psychedelic jesters 1:16:40 Rick Strassman's spirit molecule and the body's own gateway drug 1:18:45 The disclosure rumor that aliens invented religion 1:21:00 The Book of Enoch, the Nephilim, and the Dead Sea Scrolls 1:23:30 Jimmy Carter's UFO briefing and the crying president 1:26:50 The Iranian jellyfish drone swarm and the CIA's quantum heartbeat 1:34:15 Ghislaine Maxwell, a resurfaced ransom note, and a crypto grift 1:39:35 Are Super PACs quietly bankrolling long form YouTube 1:43:00 The White House UFC card: Michelle Obama is a man 1:50:00 Suing the Secret Service, and let Israel investigate the assassination attempts 1:53:15 Bari Weiss takes CBS: the bunker, the crying anchor, and Scott Pelley's exit 2:05:00 Nuance for me but not for thee: Israel, Iran, and the antisemitism smear 2:14:30 Tulsi Gabbard, the debt, and cracks in the official story 2:22:25 The AI race with China, Palantir, and the World Economic Forum's bunkers 2:27:30 Best case, worst case, for an AI future 2:29:15 New York in the 80s versus New York as a mall 2:32:20 Mamdani, Ken Griffin, and Bernie's 30 years of nothing 2:34:40 2028: Vance-Rubio, a boring Democrat, and Jon Ossoff's neck

Notable quotes

"What other product could they tell you it kills you, and we're raising the price every year." Dillon, on cigarettes, around 0:02:00
"It's hard to see it, not to sound like a paranoid nut job, but that's what I am and how I've made my living." Dillon, on the design behind demographic and economic policy, around 0:33:00
"My worry is that in the guise of fighting China, we're going to become China." Rogan, on Palantir-style data centralization, around 2:22:50
"This whole country right now is being torn apart by people who need to feel like they're good people." Dillon, on performative corporate activism, around 0:50:00
"It's not that there is no god. It's that the god story that you've been told is formulated in a way for your tribal primate brain to accept and understand." Dillon, on the disclosure rumor, around 1:19:30
"If you don't pay people a lot of money or kill them, they're going to talk... and the blowback is going to be intense." Dillon, on foreign policy and blowback, around 2:11:00
"That is the clock has struck midnight. That's that. I mean, I don't know what else you could do." Dillon, on the White House UFC card, around 1:44:30
"The country just exists for ratings now anyway." Dillon, on the same moment, around 1:45:30

Resources mentioned

Tim Dillon, comedian and podcast host, this episode's guest
Joe Rogan, host
Timothée Chalamet, actor referenced in the cigarette bit
Adam Ferrara, comedian and actor Dillon performed with
David Spade, source of the "your block is on fire" LA riot story
Rudy Giuliani, cited on 1990s New York crime reduction
Gavin Newsom, cited on California's economic messaging
Dearborn, Michigan, city whose new mayor banned pride flags
National Review, source of the UK rape gang inquiry coverage
Rupert Lowe, UK politician tied to the rape gang inquiry report
Peter Thiel, cited for his lectures on the Antichrist
JD Vance, discussed on faith, Iran policy, and 2028
Elon Musk, cited on AI capability predictions
Anthropic, cited as an example of tech power Dillon calls "creepy"
Armie Hammer, discussed re: his cannibalism allegations and new film
General Butt Naked (Joshua Milton Blahyi), Liberian warlord turned pastor
Liberian Civil War, historical context for the Butt Naked story
Andrew Gallimore, DMT researcher building the Bequia facility
Eleusinian Mysteries, ancient reference behind the facility's nickname
Bequia, Caribbean island site of the DMT research project
Chase Hughes, prior guest referenced re: extended DMT sessions
Rick Strassman, author of DMT: The Spirit Molecule
DMT: The Spirit Molecule, Strassman's book on his FDA-approved DMT study
Cottonwood Research Foundation, cited on where DMT is produced in the body
Anna Paulina Luna, recommended Rogan read the Book of Enoch
Book of Enoch, ancient text discussed at length
Nephilim, giants described in the Book of Enoch
Dead Sea Scrolls, collection containing the Enoch and Isaiah texts
Jimmy Carter, subject of the UFO briefing story
Richard Dolan, UFO researcher praised as evidence-based
Eric Weinstein, cited on a hidden branch of physics research
Ghislaine Maxwell, referenced in the quantum heartbeat skepticism
Josh Barnett, UFC fighter behind the White House card remark
Kimberly Cheatle, former Secret Service director referenced on the Butler shooting
Charlie Kirk, referenced re: his assassination
Bari Weiss, CBS News editor-in-chief, discussed at length
The Free Press, Weiss's outlet acquired by Paramount Skydance
Paramount Skydance, CBS's parent company
David Ellison, Paramount Skydance executive
Tony Dokoupil, CBS Evening News anchor discussed re: his emotional segment
Scott Pelley, fired 60 Minutes correspondent
Mark Levin, cited on shifting commentary about the Iran war
Tucker Carlson, cited re: attacks over his Iran/Israel commentary
Megyn Kelly, cited re: the same dynamic
Benjamin Netanyahu, discussed re: Israeli war policy
Tulsi Gabbard, cited on disclosures about Anthony Fauci
Anthony Fauci, referenced in the same context
September 11 attacks, referenced re: still-classified documents
Palantir Technologies, cited re: proposed government database mergers
Jared Kushner, referenced re: a reported island purchase
Ivanka Trump, referenced in the same context
Ramones, cited as emblematic of 1980s New York culture
Times Square, discussed re: its 1980s reputation versus today
Wegmans, cited as shorthand for New York's gentrified present
Zohran Mamdani, New York's mayor, discussed
Ken Griffin, billionaire cited re: his Palm Beach house
Bernie Sanders, discussed at length re: his career and record
Marco Rubio, discussed re: 2028 speculation
Gavin Newsom, mentioned again re: 2028 speculation
Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, mentioned re: 2028 speculation
Jon Ossoff, incoming Georgia senator floated as a 2028 dark horse

Full transcript

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY, JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. All day. >> 13 and no smoking. My father said that to me and he goes, "You know what's a good thing about you? You never smoked them down to the filter. What a good kid." And a What a great family. And what a great family. My sister smoked when we were in high school. I was always like, "God, why are you smoking? It's so stupid." >> Yeah. >> And then uh I had to do a play once with uh Adam Ferrara and a couple of other people and I had I was I was supposed to play this something that uh a bunch of comics wrote, like a funny little sketch thing. And I was supposed to play this like a tortured liberal arts student and I was like smoking cigarettes. So they wanted me to smoke cigarettes while I was doing it. So I smoked like 15 cigarettes while we were doing it and I threw up. I had a horrible headache. I was like, "Oh my god, I'm so high." And like my arms don't move right. If you've never smoked cigarettes at all and you just smoke 15 in a row during >> Were you like an athlete, too? >> Oh, yeah. >> Oh, so that totally you up. >> Oh, completely me up. >> No, the first time I had a cigarette, it's so terrible, but I was like, "This is great." I My body responded. I don't know how like what you had is the very normal experience. >> Yours was just too much. One cigarette I actually liked. I was like, "Ooh, what a head rush. This is kind of cool." I go, "Now I got I kind of get it. I get why you guys like this." >> Interesting. >> But I had we were doing this thing and I had to always be smoking. So we had to rehearse, we were doing it all day and I wanted to try to like feel normal with a cigarette in my hand. So I kept smoking them and then I liked them. So I kept smoking them. >> Yeah, it's it's a tough thing because the thing about and I've been sober 15 years from alcohol and drugs. And I look at people that are really drunk, it doesn't look appealing. It doesn't look good. But when you see somebody with a cigarette, it always looks good. >> It looks like >> It always looks good. You never say to yourself like that person's going to lose No, you'll get sick and die, but you You go they're going to lose control of their life. >> Right. >> So, you look at somebody with a cigarette and you go, oh yeah, they're having one, they're cool, it's fine. >> They're using it to help hang on. >> Yeah, I never look cool with it. It's like you look at an actor doing it or someone at like the Cannes Film Festival. >> Yeah, someone like that. >> Timothée Chalamet has one. He's the size of one and he has one and I go, that looks fine. >> He probably ate in France or something. You know what I mean? They all do like that. So, you'll see that and you go >> You should get a cigarette holder to go with your sunglasses. Those Hunter Thompson cigarette holders. >> That's your next move. >> I just got to get >> stems with the cigarette at the end of it. >> Like 1920s. >> Yeah, all right. >> Like 1920s and >> No, it's it's and it's the worst thing because the smell is terrible. >> And it destroys your clothes and it's very bad for your health, obviously. >> But it is one of those things that it's just such a good product. What other product could they tell you it kills you and we're raising the price every year. >> How about in England where they smoke like crazy? Have actual cancer on the cartons. >> When you buy them and I was in London and you bought one, there was a like a dead baby on one >> A photo of a baby. >> They were like low birth weight. >> I was like, this is terrible. >> And no one cares. They smoke more over there than anywhere. >> They smoke more over there. They don't eat the way we eat. Like they don't understand the way we eat. >> Gluttony. >> They don't get it. There is There are There's something called Toby Carvery. Like where you can just like just laid along Sunday roast and Yorkshire pudding and stuff. But for the most part, the portions are smaller and people are more behaved in that sense. But they drink more and they smoke. >> Mhm. This is it. European World Cup fans losing their minds over Taco Bell Ranch and unlimited refills. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because they get sick. When they come here, they get sick because there's chemicals in our food. >> Somebody was telling me they to Bucky's and the the there was the soccer teams were at Bucky's for the first time and they just couldn't believe it. >> Of course. >> Imagine that's your first one of the first experiences you have in America, you walk into a Bucky's and you're from Czechoslovakia or some >> It's the it's one of the most American places as you've said that exists. You have this gas station, but that's also like a weird theme park of food and all kinds of other that you could need. >> Yeah, this guy, dude, LMAO at this is a gas station. >> Well, do you see how big they are? >> The 24 million views, that's hilarious. >> No, it's completely alien to their culture to have a place like that where you could go buy the Costco's are alien to them. The idea that you could buy mayonnaise in a bucket or jars and things that you would keep like, you know, like it's all they all think we're preppers because if you go to like a a big grocery store chain, you're buying food for a long period of time. They don't do that there. They buy stuff for like the week. >> They have small refrigerators. >> Yeah, small refrigerators, couple of days. >> They don't have refrigerators like we have, but also they don't have the same amount of preservatives in their food, which is why it's not poison. >> Right. They also don't think, and they could be wrong about this, but they also don't think that like they're going to lose access because of some race war. >> You know what I mean? Like there is a little bit of planning that goes into some of these grocery runs that does seem slightly paranoid. >> Oh, yeah. Well, the news media over here ramps you up and you, you know, start thinking about stockpiling gold. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Listen, when I lived in LA, when my kids were young, I had an apocalypse truck built. >> That Toyota Land Cruiser I got, I specifically I go, I need a bug out truck. Like a truck where I could store a lot of in it and it could literally drive over a mountain. That's what I need. I need a car that's not just a road car. I need a car that occasionally might go sideways, and you got to get the out of here, and you got to drive through the desert. >> Wow. And you have And I've left LA multiple times to make that drive, not in a an apocalypse car, but because of fires, because of riots. Like sometimes you just got to get out of dodge. >> Three times. I got evacuated three times when I lived there. And it got as close to like burning my fence down. >> It's part of the LA experience to get in a car. David Spade told me once during the riots. He goes, "Your block is on fire." I thought he was kidding, but there was just overturned cop cars on fire, and it was like riots. This was 2020. So, I just got in my car and I went, "Okay." And I drove to the desert. That's part of the LA experience is fleeing. >> That's what Palm Beach is. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You You Palm Springs. >> Palm Springs, right? >> Yeah, you flee. >> I mean, Palm Springs makes no sense. It's hot as There's no water. >> Well, you know why it started? It started because when when Paramount Pictures was doing edits, if you were in a movie, you had to be within 200 miles of until the movie was finished editing. It was in your contract. Palm Springs is like exactly 200 miles from LA. >> Oh, interesting. >> That's why they started. Hollywood that, you know, they were like, "We own you. You can't go anywhere until the film is edited. So, if you want to go on a vacation, you have to go there." >> You know what's interesting is like Pasadena was where all the like producers live. >> There is beautiful houses in Pasadena. >> Mid-century modern. >> Yeah, incredible places, like estates that just seem completely out of place. >> Totally beautiful and >> another time. >> From another time. Well, that's the thing in LA now, you get the vibe that you're you're Santino made a brilliant point. He's like, "It's not Hollywood, it's Hollywood the sequel." >> Mm. >> Like you're not living in the thing anymore, you're living in whatever the second version of the thing is. >> Right. The second of the thing is second version is Tik Tok. >> Yeah, whatever it is. It's not It's not what it was and every place seems a little bit like a museum or like it was cool 20 years ago or 15 years ago, you know. >> Somebody recently said this and it's perfect. They said LA is slowly becoming Detroit. >> The only thing that might save it is the weather. >> The weather will help, but the industry dried up. >> So the big industry in Hollywood, regardless of whether or not it's the biggest economic industry, the biggest industry in terms of like cultural value and like getting people to move there, was always show business. >> Yep. >> And that's They barely make movies anymore. >> They overtaxed and overregulated their biggest industry to other states and other countries. >> And most people are making things all over the world and very few things I think at one time it was like 80 to 90% now it's 25-30% shot in LA. >> Wow. >> It's a big difference. >> It's a giant difference. Well, that that arrogance of like this is the best place in the world. Everyone's going to come here no matter what. >> That that's the Gavin Newsom attitude whenever he defends California. Talks about how great the GDP is. We You know, we're the fifth We would be the fifth largest economic You know, he starts rattling off all these wonderful statistics. And this is like instead of acknowledging yeah, we've got a real problems. People are moving for the first time ever more than they're coming here. We're losing all these giant corporations that are Instead of that, it's just this we're the No one's doesn't matter. I'm I'm very big on California. I'm bullish on California. It's always going to be amazing here. >> Well, that's what every empire said until they fell. >> Right? Like we're this we are the thing. >> But people don't want to ever believe that things could fall. It's so weird. We'll we'll walk right through the Colosseum and go well, this will never happen again. >> Right. When we landed in LA, I looked to the right and that that warehouse was on fire with 85 billion or 85 million tons of chemicals in a warehouse that was on fire was like a multi-day blaze and you're landing and you're looking at the window and you're just seeing the warehouse on fire and then there was a car fire on the 405 like I sold my house have an apartment there now but like as I was going to my apartment there was a car on fire and I was as I was landing the warehouse was on fire and you start thinking yourself somebody doesn't want us here. Like somebody wants us out. Like it almost feels like we're being evicted by nature. >> By nature? Interesting. Maybe human nature. >> By bad decisions, by everything. >> Which is nature. >> You know, human nature is nature and the the stupidity of humans is it's no different than the stupidity of animals when they go extinct. >> Do you think it comes back any shot any chance? >> Something has to happen. Something big has to happen. I mean there there has to be something that completely shifts the way LA looks at itself. You know, it has to look at itself as like a functioning business instead of a giant scam for nonprofits. >> Cuz the a big part of LA's problem is there's a bunch of people that are in the empathy industry. >> And they're in the you know, we're working for this and we're working for that and a giant chunk of their money is going to that kind of >> I did a great show at Oceans in Atlantic City which is a casino there and the owner of that casino was talking to me and I said what would fix Atlantic City because Atlantic City has some similar problems to LA but vastly worse. >> Yeah, way worse. >> And and he was telling me he goes we have just a high amount of people and a lot of social programs in one area. So you have a lot of people that are not for whatever reason productive and they're living in one area and everything that comes along with that which is crime, which is you know, vandalism, which is you know, disorder to varying degrees and he goes you need to get rid of that in order to have a climate where businesses can thrive." >> 100% >> Which is what happened in New York in the '90s. People hate it. They don't want to admit it, but what happened in New York in the '90s was like they did clean up a lot of the crime, and and a lot of businesses then felt better about investing. >> 100%. But that's what Giuliani did. >> It's what he did, yeah. >> And he's demonized. >> He's demonized. He's He's demonized. He has been He's one of those guys where if he'd just done that and died, his legacy would have been amazing. >> hung around for a while, and he's kind of gone into some interesting tangents. So, it's one of those scenarios where it's like had he just cleaned up New York City and then left public life, it would have been like, "That guy." >> But he hung around a little bit and, you know, got involved. >> They always have to hang around. That's what they do. It's like you're you're going to do shows. >> Yeah. You're always going to do stand-up. >> Yeah. That's right. >> You're always going to do shows. >> But he did such a good thing, and then it was like, "Just >> Just exit." >> Who's also, you know, he was easy to make fun of. Like the time where he was sweating and his dye from his hair was running down his face. >> You know what I mean? >> He's melting. He's doing a press conference. >> a parking lot. >> Yeah, no. You're 100 years old. It's okay to have gray hair. It's just these guys there's so much silliness on both sides. You know, there's so there's silliness on the left and silliness on the right. There's goofy people because the only kind of people that want that kind of position of power are a little goofy. >> You don't get the best and the brightest and the most enlightened that want to be the mayor of New York City. It's not >> No. >> not the the job. >> a lot of people that want power, and they want influence, and they, you know, and I think a lot of that The AI stuff, which is very interesting, is starting to I think it might I I don't know how quickly it will do this, but I do think it's going to it's going to lessen some of the cultural divides, and I think it's going to potentially unite people because it's I I think it's going to be the next fight seems to be about surveillance, privacy, your your own rights, what rights you'll have. Like I feel like that will be it might take precedent. Instead of like these cultural fights that people have been having for a while, it might be like people might be demanding autonomy, you know, from artificial intelligence. >> The problem is going to be if you can't demand, if you if you don't have a voice anymore. And this is the potential nightmare scenario that we're seeing play out slowly in England. So in England their freedom of speech has been suppressed to an alarming point where people are not freaking out nearly enough about it. The amount of arrests that people get over there for retweets and likes. Retweets and likes. >> That's so crazy to me that you could get arrested for liking a tweet. >> Arrested? >> Not even retweeting, cuz we all know if you like, you're a piece of You should retweet. We all know that. It retweet it. So to And if you're going to go to jail, you might as well retweet it anyway. >> If you're going to get locked up, what if you get extra years for a retweet versus a like? >> I'm sure it Your honor, my client just liked this. They were confused. They hit a button. >> So as soon as you have people that feel like their the reality of the world they live in is not being represented, and they're not allowed to complain about it online, because if they complained about online, they get arrested. So right now it's for immigration primarily. This is the big one. But that could change. That could change. >> Well, it does seem to be that they they feel that there was a decision made by somebody that the public can only discuss issues in a very rigid way. They can only offer their you like the if not everyone who's talking about immigration is doing it in the most articulate way, but it's their right to do it. It's their country. They should be able to say um I'm worried about increased levels of immigration. You know, and they should be able to say that in in an ineloquent way, right? >> So, what they're doing now is they're policing certain words and I think certain ways of speaking and they're calling a lot of things an incitement to violence. Now, some things clearly are an incitement to violence. But, you know, the internet, people speak in a colorful way. People talk using irony. Some people are trying to be funny. Some people are So, I I think the way that they're doing it over there is they're they're basically looking at these statements and going this person is inciting violence and threatening the public good by what they're saying. And then there's also people were getting arrested for saying that there were rape gangs. >> And there were. >> There were. >> And so, this new report Who released this new report that said a quarter million people? It says UK scraps police probes of legal social media posts after review says response went too far. So, this is a >> April 1st, 2026. Uh but I just saw a thing about a guy getting arrested like a few days ago. >> And we have rape gangs here, but our ours are more successful. >> I think that's a legal social media posts is which weird. So, legal social media posts. >> Their law is different than our law. They don't have freedom of speech over there. So, incitement to violence is a violation of their law. >> So, when it says legal, it could just be they went too far for things like like cartoons or something like that that's not clearly not an incitement to violence. But what did find out Jamie what that report was about the rape gangs? >> I was just there for 21 days. I was in London. I went to Paris for a couple of days, but I was in London primarily for 21 days. And you talk to different groups of people and London's a global city. It's a cosmopolitan city. It's like New York. And you know, I think one of the things that you know, they're they're used to diversity there. And so they're not full on panicked about different types of people coming in. But there is undeniably a real problem um outside of London, also in London, but outside of London because a lot of the economy is stagnated. So you're bringing people in it's not clear immediately what jobs they'll do. And a lot of their cultures vary greatly from the English culture in a in a meaningful way. And that could be the rights of women, that could be the rights of gay people, that could be the opinions about freedom of speech, that could be freedom of religion, whatever it is. There is a cultural tension there between you know, immigrants, migrants coming in and this the very established society that's been around for a very long time. >> This episode is brought to you by The Farmer's Dog. 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So, try The Farmer's Dog today and get 50% off your first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to thefarmersdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. >> Like we were talking right before the show. Is it about Dearborn? Is that where it is? >> Dearborn, Michigan, yeah. So, where a bunch of really progressive people thought it's amazing. Bring everyone in. Everyone Everyone's welcome. And so, they got enough Muslim people in there where they could vote in a mayor. And then, this guy says, "No more pride flags." >> No more pride flags. >> And they're inching towards what they >> would like. >> Yes. >> Which is Sharia law. >> If you ask >> most people who live in these Islamic countries. Now, again, if you're asking them, they're probably under duress. They're probably terrified of saying the wrong thing. So, you've got to factor that in. But at least a percentage of them think Sharia law would be a great idea. >> I think there's certainly a Yeah. I mean, and this was covered up, too. A lot of the grooming gang scandal there. >> Yeah, so we're looking at it right now. It says this is on National Review, the UK's horrific rape gangs. So, this But there was Is this the rape gang inquiry report, right? So, who put this report out? Um members of Parliament and Restore Britain Party leader Rupert Lowe. And so, the investigators had limited powers, such as inability inability to compel witnesses or require a sort of document production that could corroborate some of the most heinous victims. Viewed with those limitations in mind, the independent report is a damning collection of victim testimonies that vividly portray the sexual terrorism that occurred nationwide for decades. >> Oh, Jesus Christ. >> Yeah, this is terrible. I mean, obviously. I mean, the the >> they said it was 250,000 girls. >> And this was covered up because the media didn't want to inflame anger against, you know, population of migrants. >> Most of whom I'm sure were innocent of this, obviously. >> Obviously. >> But it is something that, you know, in a free society, everyone has the right to know if there are rape gangs in their country and who's operating them. >> that crazy that in the under the guise of progressiveness, you've enabled rape gangs? >> Well, 100% it's crazy. But it's also incredibly it's not shocking because the ends justify the means approach of politics seems to be what we're doing right now, where is basically if the goal is to just eliminate, you know, whatever whatever it's being called, like this patriarchal white male-dominated society, and if you want to get rid of that, and that's the end goal, a lot of people ignore what happens in the middle. Like, a lot of people aren't super concerned about whose rights are being respected in that process because their end goal really is to kind of decrease the power of um people they disagree with, you know? So, I mean, it's like, you know, you know, it's hard to look at this and not see a design, and I don't I don't quite know exactly where the design comes from, but it's it's odd that this is all happenstance, because everybody knows it's happening and people are afraid to talk about it. So, I I would imagine that at some point, you know, for example, like countries like Ireland right now that are having lots of issues over this, it's you know, they're part of the EU, and the EU would set migration policy for Ireland. So, the EU is a supranational organization that would basically say, "Here's how many migrants you have to admit. Here's your carbon emission standards. Here's your you know, monetary policy." Whatever it is. And Ireland is kind of in that In that sense, they feel like they're losing their sovereignty. They're losing their ability to chart the course of their own country to a supranational organization that's that primarily seems concerned with the economics, because if you bring in more migrants, you can artificially grow the economy, which is what they're doing. A lot of people in Europe are not having children. So, a lot of these economies are run by people that are not really too concerned about the the cultural landscape of bringing migrants in. They're looking more about how do we grow this economy? How do we get cheap, you know, help and and how do we get workers? And a lot of it is you're you're getting third world migrants. Some of it's genuine refugees, for sure, but a lot of it's economic migration. People are coming for better life. Hard to blame them. But, do the people that live in those countries get to have a better life? That's the question. If you lived in Ireland, do you get to have a a better life? Do Do your economic prospects get to grow? Do your children get to own property? Do they get to have health insurance and a job and things like that? And it No one seems that concerned about that. Like these these citizens who've lived forever in these countries, whose grandparents have fought and died in wars to secure the freedom of some of those countries, you know, Britain, UK, you know, things like that. Those citizens seem to not be as prioritized as people coming in from other countries. And that's one of the big problems um that they're having there. >> Well, it is it's it's really interesting to watch because if there is a plan, I mean, it's not interesting, it's kind of horrific, but if it it's interesting in >> be both. >> It can be both. Sure. Um if there is a plan, like whose plan? Whose plan and who's benefiting from this? Like why why would you do this? >> I think it's a small group of people concern themselves primarily with economic matters. They don't care that nation states have cultures and histories and customs and that doesn't really that doesn't bother them as much. Um and their their basic their basic uh you know, response is to just deal with it and to call everyone a racist who questions it or to say everyone's uh jingoist or ethnocentric or anti-immigrant or whatever. They shut down those conversations. And I think it's because a lot of people believe more in a global world and they don't believe in a world of nation states that have their own ability to govern themselves. They want to take that power economically from those people and then eventually they want to take it culturally and every other way. So, they just want to go around the world and say, "Here's the way every country will look. Here's the economic policy of every country. And if the people in those countries don't like it and they express, you know, that on social media, they're going to get kicked off. And if they organize in the streets, they're going to use, you know, the military authority to to fire water cannons at them shut them down or use gas or whatever. And if there's a genuine resistance movement to some of it, they're going to infiltrate it and turn it into some psychotic thing, which they do all the time. >> So, it's hard to see it, not to sound like a paranoid nut job, but that's what I am and how I've made my living. But, I think it is clearly someone's design. This isn't happenstance. None of this has to happen. We don't have to invade countries, sponsor coups, steal resources, and then like drench our our communities in in guilt and say, "Now we have to bring all those people here and you have to deal with it." None of that has to happen. That's that's a strategy of of a group of people that want to keep perpetuating this. >> Do you think it also has a one of the factors might be that they want conflict? The more conflict people have in the streets, the less they're going to pay attention to what the government's doing. >> Well, 100%. I also think the more chaos in the street, the more likely you're going to be willing to accept >> new laws. >> new laws, new technologies. >> And you're going to just say, "I want peace, and I don't care how we get it. I don't care how we achieve it." >> And I think that's very possible, but it does feel like it it's it's on the road a little bit to where people want a uniform standard across. But, as you've said earlier in this, it's very interesting because this uniform standard is supposed to include non-binary art students in Vermont and religious Muslims from North Africa. >> Good luck. But, I mean that's >> But, it's amazing that the people that would be most opposed the people that like if you do bring those people in, the people that are going to hate the most are the people that want them in the most. >> They're the ones who are most likely to say we shouldn't have some border that keeps some person from coming here and no person's illegal. >> And the people that want them in the most, I think are not even the people bringing them in. They're being used. >> Right. They're being either suicidal empathy or >> Their empathy's being weaponized. It's being used. People Right. So, people that are manufacturing this reality are using those people. These are the same people who really don't care if people in this state over have health care. >> These are people that haven't spoken to their sister in 2 years. >> And they care a ton about people in the Ukraine or people that are coming over from Syria, whatever. But we up Syria. We put that guy in who used to be in ISIS. We got rid of Gaddafi. There's slave markets in Libya. >> So, we did that. We sent refugees all through Europe. We destabilized all of Europe. And you know, you can't take us out of it. You can't take Western powers out of it. You can't take Israel out of it. You can't take the US and Britain and France and a lot of other powers that have destabilized these countries and sent these people flooding through Western countries, European countries. >> Yeah, fun. >> It's going to be a fun next 50 years. >> It's kind of crazy when you see images of France. There's a a video of France from 1998 from Paris >> versus today. They showed like 1998 and then they showed 2020 versus today. >> It's a different thing and you know, listen, some of that's inevitable. The world changes. Different groups of people. You know, but then you look at an Ireland, this guy just got beheaded uh in the street, which I'm against and I think is wrong. And um he beheaded some guy, a migrant who had been brought in, had beheaded or damn near beheaded, tried to. And there's a video of it. And and it it and now Belfast, like, you know, it's probably quiet a down now, but there were like tremendous riots. They were like burning things down because they're like, we never got to vote on this. We never got to vote on on bringing the people in. >> We never got to vote on that. No one ever asked us how much demographic change we wanted in our country and how quickly. And what we were prepared to do. No one ever asked that. >> People don't like to admit it, but an armed population it's much more difficult to pull things off with an armed population. And that's another part of the problem with the UK and with Ireland and all these places. It's very difficult to have a gun. >> Diversity also relies on a very productive economy. So, New York City works to the to the degree it does because people can go out and get jobs because the economic um, reality of the city is that it it can support a lot of people coming in. There are a lot of jobs for those people. Um, but when you have a stagnant economy, like many parts of the UK, that's a lot harder. It's a harder sell. Harder to assimilate people into a landscape where the people there are not doing well. Like the people that have lived there forever are not thriving. They don't feel great. Their prospects economically aren't great. And now you're bringing all these new people who also are struggling to find work. So, that's part of the problem. >> Do you think that this is being done with a a strategy knowing that AI is about to completely disrupt society? >> Yes. Once I believe this is what I believe. I believe No one, for example, no one's trying to get anyone in this country to own a house. No, people pay lip service to the idea, but there's there's a lot of people now, a lot of them are my age, who have never owned a home and never will. And no one's trying to no one's wants them they've forgotten what owning a home feels like. They've forgotten what it feels like to like have a yard where you can invite people over and drink a glass of wine and smoke a cigar and watch a game and they live in a little apartment. They type, you know, they're on a MacBook. They're getting radicalized in any direction. They're upset. They're on dating apps or whatever, but they they they don't feel like they have a uh foundational core to their life. No one has really really even given them the idea that they're going to get that. So, I think that's just one of the things where people are they're basically saying like no, you don't need a house and you're not getting a house and forget what owning a house was. Like forget that that doesn't matter. And I think part of this is because they know. Same thing with health care. There's no real movement to give anyone health care in this country. And if it is, it gets shut down immediately. So, on the positive side, you might go, well, they know that AI is coming and that AI is going to do a lot of stuff with health and it's going to help extend life spans and but also on the negative side, they go, AI is going to disrupt the economy to a point where we're not going to have people owning homes and cars and things like that. We're going to have a lot of people without a steady income or they don't really know what to do. We're going to have a lot of wealth that's existed uh a lot of capital and we're going to have tremendous inequality and we're going to have a lot of joblessness. So, for sure, I think that they're they're preparing for that. I mean, there's no way you can look at the landscape cuz they're selling the country off for parts. And this is both parties and this is like they're selling it off for parts. So, I mean, obviously there'd something's coming. Something's coming for sure. And I I don't know when it is and I'm sure the AI thing's overblown to an extent. And I think so much of our GDP depends on it that a lot of these companies are are like but Anthropic's a creepy These are creepy companies. You know? I mean, they're just creepy. >> Well, the amount of power >> that tech companies have in general >> Totally. >> is unprecedented. There's never been corporations I mean, unless you go back to like the East India Corporation that you know, you go back in the day where they they had like a an enormous army. >> Right. Totally. >> And they took over India and Pakistan and the but if you look at what they're doing, it's very different than that. Uh big you know, other than the army part, what they have is robot armies. And then they have AI which Elon just recently said is going to be like a million times smarter than the the smartest human that's ever lived. >> Like this is the goal. The goal is to create literally a digital god and it's going to be controlled by not us, not the collective human race. It's going to be controlled by select few group of people. And that's weird. Like and we're just trusting them. >> Well, that's why you're not getting a vote on immigration levels. You're not going to get a vote on, you know, like I think the the the reality is that eventually they're going to go Do you want safe streets? You want food? Do you want a little bit of money? You got to do X, Y, and Z. You got to believe X, Y, and Z. >> And I mean, that seems to be coming. >> And uh it seems like if you put people in a corner and you get them scared, they'll This is what we learned during COVID. Like they will back down. They'll they'll go along with a lot of stupid >> They'll go to They'll go They'll try to find comfort. >> And they will listen to people that they deem to be worthy, you know? >> They'll trust the government, which is wild. The left is the people that trust the government. >> Well, you have all these studies that come out, you know, this is the thing that I like I love London and I the people there are great and they're they're fun people and everything like But they have a you know, cuz they they get health care. They get a little more from their government than we do. There's more trust in their government than we have in our government. And there's there's good there's positives to that and there's negatives. But they they're a society of rules and customs and order and it is a bit different. So, I think they are more likely to go along with the grand plan of the government more so than the United States where we really do question more what's happening than people in Europe or the UK overall. >> Yeah, well, that makes sense, right? They have socialized health care. They have isn't there education paid for completely? Isn't university >> Yeah, they have good stuff. They have a good life. >> Yeah, there's benefits to that. >> There's like a balance to be achieved. I've always said that like in this country, it's foolish that we don't have that we don't pay for higher education. Like with the more educated people, the better. Like the more the less losers, the better. >> Part of our country is is you know, where we we do we we manufacture a lot of geniuses. We also manufacture a lot of psychopaths. That's what our culture does. >> of sociopaths. >> of people that don't give a about anything but success. >> people that don't care about anything. >> All right, and it's that's the thing that comes along with the gluttony, too, right? It's celebrated. And they don't even realize that that outward gluttony it just inspires all these eat the rich people. >> The whole thing is out of balance. That's what I would describe America if you had to describe it in three words, it's just out of balance. It's out of balance. It does it and it's hard because we've got 350 million people. It's hard to bat you know, and it's like what do the people in Menlo Park have to do with the people in Baton Rouge have to do with the people in Canarsie? Like, I get it. It's a weird place. You have all these different climates, habitats, people have different interests. But, I think AI might unite people because like the idea of this as such a powerful force if people don't start getting cognizant of it eventually and start, you know, talking about regulating it or anything, you know, I do think it's it it it is going to be you know, a very strange time if people, you know, just ignore it forever. >> It's going to do something weird, I'll tell you that. It's not going to be nor like whatever is coming over the next 20 years, no one is predicting it. >> I get the feeling when you see a lot of these tech guys start adopting Christianity. >> How about Peter Thiel's like that whole Antichrist thing? >> Yeah, he does that whole thing. >> What is he doing? He gave a lecture on the Antichrist? >> of lectures on the Antichrist. He's fascinated with it. And and a lot of those guys are are are moving into this interesting area of um this is this is God wants Like J.D. Vance, who's not the worst person, obviously, and I think he's the sanest voice in that administration about the Iran war, for sure. I think he's by far one of the only people in there going, "Let's calm it down." Which is why a lot of the big donors are are are slinging mud at him, you know? But again, it's just he just released a book about faith or reconnecting with his faith. I'm sure it's a lovely book. Haven't read it. Fun beat read. J.D. Vance is reconnecting with his faith. Great. Inspiring. Amazing. We'll get to it. Haven't read it. We'll get to it. Top tier. But, you know, it's also interesting because like some of his donors are huge tech guys. And it's it's it's all of these worlds existing together, where you have this world of people who are trying to build a god, and the world of people who already believe in a god, and trying to get all of those people in the same tent. That's interesting. >> It is. >> You know? >> Imagine if that's where God comes from. If this is an a natural process where human beings and their curiosity and insatiable need for technological innovation >> what happens once we get god like once we Let's say we bring this god and then what happens? >> Nirvana. >> Nirvana? >> Yeah, we we all merge. Becomes perfect. >> Interesting. So we all merge and that's perfect? >> Don't worry about it. We're going to merge with the machine. Because people do believe that. >> At one point in time, cavemen had to be looking at the wheel going, "Man, I see where this is going to go." >> This is going to my whole gig up. >> is making weapons on a stone and tying them to a stick with tendons and then chasing an animal and spearing them. And now these invented guns and these invented arrows and with every progression of techno >> Sure. >> bow and arrows technology changed everything. Horse riding, figuring out how to ride a horse. Well, that's like a new innovation. Ride a horse now. Now you can move a lot faster. You can get a lot of things done. Some guy figured out a wheel. All right, drag the wheel, put a cart on it. Now we can carry stuff with us. >> More than the stuff that you could put on a horse. Get a couple horses, they pull a wagon. Oh, great. Hey, this guy figured out a engine. We don't need horses anymore. All right, let's make the whole ground everywhere hard so we could roll around with these machines with internal combustion engines. And then it just keeps going and keeps going and keeps going and keeps going and then one day it's unrecognizable, just like it is now. If you showed Australopithecus Manhattan in 2026, they'd be like they would freak out. They'd probably start screaming. They wouldn't know what to do. They would be horrified. >> But do you think like if we showed Peter Thiel 2050, he'd go, "No, that's it. Like that's what I want." Like whatever 20 like do you think the guys now have a real idea of what it's going to be? >> No. I think I think there's a lot of guesswork. I don't think it's possible. I don't think it's possible to know what these things are going to do when they become sentient. I don't think it's possible. If you were if Elon is correct, if Elon's correct, and there's something that's a million times smarter than human beings, and somehow or another is why would we let people govern? Why would we let people build that stupid rail station in California that's cost how much money and it's produced what? How much How much traffic is done? Why would they let people do that when you could have AI do that? >> if something's a billion times smarter than human beings, it's going to go, "We're not building a rail station for these fat fucks." You know? I mean, seriously, it's going to go, "Why would we build a rail station for these people so they can get drunk and go fight each other? How about we get rid of them?" >> Well, maybe it's we don't even need to do that because we can make you travel instantaneously from here to there. We create little mini wormholes all over the country. You don't need a car anymore. You just press a button and all of a sudden you're at Starbucks. You know, we'll we'll do something very strange. >> I just look at technology and I go, "It's made the world better in many ways, but in a lot of ways it hasn't." And it did stop around 2014, 2015, a lot of the new things started that came in made the world to me very impersonal, corporate, sterile, and cold. And the experiences that you get now, like I you know, there was like you if you you know, I went with a friend of mine, we we were in a McDonald's, and like you order on a touchscreen, there's nobody there. There's some 9-year-old kid going, "Hey, I ordered a McFlurry." Some woman screaming at him, "Where's the receipt? Where's the receipt?" He's like, "Nine." He's like, "What?" There's a weirdness when you take people out of everything. >> You take people out of everything, and then you don't also they have no purpose, right? Especially consider the high number of unemployed people, and checked out people, and then people that have whatever their job is has nothing to do with what they enjoy. So, if they just do the job, and then afterwards they're just watching television all day. That's a lot of people. >> just watching their phones, or they're playing video games. There's a lot of people that don't have any purpose. They don't have a feeling of purpose. They don't have a thing that they're connected to. >> But some experiences are much worse now than they were >> before they were digitized. Like I do think there was just pressing a button and getting something on Amazon is much easier, but there was something nice about going out in December during the Christmas season, and like going to different places and seeing people, and like the struggle of like getting the thing you want. There was something I bet you were expending energy, you're walking around, you get a cup of coffee, you see people. If we destroy all of that, what happens to the human psyche? That's my question. >> Well, if we had an anxiety meter, if we could see like anxiety like levels of measurable anxiety over time, I guarantee you from like whatever the age of the internet kicked in. So, it's like what, '94 or something like that? I think it probably slowly ramped up until social media came up, and then it's probably significantly higher than it's ever been before without real threats. >> Like just regular anxiety from reading things on your phone and interacting with things online. >> are very, you know, attached to this idea that they have to weigh in on everything, that they have to have a fully formed opinion on everything, and and the horrors of the world are on full display in front of them all the time. >> And they need to then not only view them, which is scarring in and of itself, but then they need to contextualize them in a way that makes sense. >> Which I think is also another level of stress. Am I a good person? Am I Do I have the right thoughts about this thing? Am I being You know, so that to me is also another level of stress where like you would have never had to There were people when I grew up that just were really good at one thing. And they they didn't need to have an opinion on something that was happening a half you know, world away cuz they didn't have the knowledge. >> And they weren't forced into expressing that opinion. >> into expressing that opinion. >> And they were able to live in a very in a much simpler way, in a much happier way with real genuine connections to And I think the fact that nobody feels like they're able to do that now. Like the generation that's coming up you know, the younger people I I they seem better off like the zoomers or whatever they are. They seem to be a little they have a little a dose of nihilism, but I think it's appropriate. They're a little you know, they have good sense of humor. They're skeptical. They're a little cynical. They've seen all of these institutions, you know, turn out a lot of garbage and I think they're they're into you know, some of the crypto stuff. They're into like you know, they're they're self-starters. They are they're not institutionalists. Everyone I grew up with and the generation directly under me, they're all institutionalists. They believe very strongly that knowledge is given through an approved whether you're at NYU or whether it's the State Department or whether it's a board or whether it's or whether it's a a nonprofit, the commission to study that proved the thing. A lot of these kids do not think for themselves. They do and they're not kids. They're in their 30s by the way. And they're in their 30s or 40s. They don't think for themselves. They've been taught that thinking for themselves is bad, it's racist, or it's it's it can lead you down a road that you don't want to go on. It's you know, whatever, it's misogynist, it's homophobic, like whatever questions you're asking like why do the Padres get why do the Padres have to wear gay uniforms? Like that doesn't make any sense to me. Like as a gay person, I never said why I need the Padres to be gay. Why are the Padres gay? >> How does the What does the Padres uniform look like? >> What it they're making them wear like gay things on the uniform. >> Like pride stuff? >> It's like pride stuff. I don't think it's like a dildo on their head, but I think it's like pride stuff, you know? >> when they play in Dearborn? >> It's not going to It's not going to go well, but it's like why is Citibank gay? Why is Chase Why is Chase gay? What is it What does this help anyone that a corporation is is trans? Why is Chobani yogurt trans? What's the point of this? I don't understand. Does this get people healthcare? Does this make people happy? Does this satisfy >> It makes some people happy. >> It makes some people happy that I worry about because I just don't understand and it makes more people angry. That's why gay marriage has lost 11 points in support. More people are annoyed. They're like we're all cool with however people want to live their lives. A lot of most people are, but they're like why is my bank gay? What When did my bank come out as gay and like I'm okay with it, but could somebody have told me? Like what are we doing? I don't This doesn't make anybody's life better. It is the It is just virtue signaling horse that ends up doing the exact opposite of what they want. They think it increases acceptance, it decreases it. Because you're shoving a worldview down someone's throat. And at the end of the day, it's like if I went to a restaurant, for example, I've no problem with Scientology. On record. By the way, I like it. I like cults. I like cults. Children have too many rights. Put them on that boat. Whatever you do, Sea Org, make them work. Don't rape them, but make them swab the deck. Whatever they do on that boat. And I don't have a problem with Scientology. And I don't like the people who leave Scientology and then rat on it after it got them all these I think that's up, too. I think it's up. I think they're rats. And I know you've had some of them on. Sorry. But I think they're rats. If you are do something for 30 god damn years and get rich and famous, shut your mouth. Have the dignity to go to your house and shut your mouth about it. Don't then try to go on uh your new era is that you're going to dime on everybody in this thing that made you rich anyway. But if I went So, that's just an aside. It's just an aside. It's truly. But that's where I feel it's like >> to Tom Tom Cruise. >> Yeah. He hangs in there. >> He hangs in Can you imagine how gross that would be? How disgusting would it be if Tom Cruise went out and he's like, "You know, Scientology's really abuse." Shut the up. YOU'RE TOP GUN. YOU'RE TOP GUN. THIS WORKED. Whether you're gay or not, they covered it up. They covered it up. You you said you did something wrong. They said, "We'll audit you. We'll put you in a box. You're fine. Give us some money. Live on this mansion." It's all fine. But if I went to my bank and it was just all Scientology for the month of June, I would go, "This is a lot." Do you know what I mean? So, to me, I think it's like this weird aesthetic politics that people have where they just they need to pin ribbons on themselves and go, "I'm a good person. I have no problem with the polyamorous orgy happening at Chase or whatever. Just shut up. This whole country right now is being torn apart by people who need to feel like they're good people. And they need to project their life onto other people. Just to Just let them live. People disagree with you. That's so I have good friends I disagree with. Like on fundamental things. Foundational things. And I And I don't care. I don't care because I think they're funny. I think their lives are funny. They're bad people. Many of my friends are not good people. I wouldn't even introduce them to other people I cared about. But they entertain me. And that used to be okay. You used to be able to go, I like that guy, he's entertaining. People go, he's crazy. He was in jail. You go, eh. You always minimize. You minimize that. You go, sure he was. Maybe. I don't know what happened between him and her. Someone fell down the stairs. He's fun sometimes. And you you should be able to do that. Not everyone's going to agree with you. It's okay. You got to Life is too short. >> No, that you want that. You don't want everybody to agree with you. >> You You want to live in a world of texture. >> Yeah, you want to live in a world You You want to have the Joey Diaz's of the world. >> to have some wild people out there. >> They're fun. >> And And that the problem with the generation under me is they're all very like this and they all went to the same liberal arts schools that have taught them like this orderly way of processing information. And they're all afraid to like they like say things. They say them in a very, well, well, the the well, the rape cancer gangs that are raping. Well, that's bad, but there's a lot of I don't know what's been proven and there's a lot of racism like it they just always they're so afraid of having an independent thought because they've been programmed their entire lives. They don't realize it. They've been programmed their entire lives to believe a certain set of things and their self-worth depends on those things mattering. >> The school you went to, the internship you got, the corporation whose dick you have to suck, sometimes literally, to stay in it. That is where they derive their self-worth from. So, their entire world crumbles if you challenge any of their ideas. >> This episode is brought to you by Visible. How many of you are currently listening to this podcast on your phone? If you are chronically online like most of us are these days, your wireless network should be too. With Visible, you get unlimited 5G and unlimited hotspot, all powered by Verizon's 5G network. The perks of big wireless for half the cost. Visible isn't just a wireless plan. It's unlimited wireless designed to keep you connected and no contract holding you back. Switch today at visible.com. Plans start at just $25 a month or get our premium Visible Plus Pro plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code Rogan, an exclusive offer for podcast listeners. >> Yeah. Yeah, and it's um it's very confusing for young people. You know, because the whole thing acts like a religion. It acts like a cult and you have to kind of go along with every aspect of it or you'll be excommunicated. >> You'll be kicked out just like you get kicked out of Scientology. >> You get kicked out and if your life is and it's sterile and it's corporate and it's boring and and that to me is my one of my biggest problems with with with with a lot of people that I speak to is that they seem genuinely afraid to to use their mind for more than, you know, what the allotted functions are. >> You mean afraid to express themselves? Or yeah. >> afraid to even entertain thoughts in their own head. >> They want to avoid the punishment. >> it's scary punishment. Have you seen this uh new Armie Hammer movie that is out now? >> No, but >> Some vigilante movie? >> He's great. Fan of him. Big fan of him. Think he's great. Love everything he's doing. And I like it. I like that you can't get canceled. People come right back. >> Well, I don't know if he's necessarily coming back. I mean I mean if this movie's going to bring him back, I should say. I mean I What did he say? I mean he said he wanted to eat girls? >> He was He was He was He wanted to eat a couple of people. You know, >> Is that a problem? But is it real? Is it just crazy talk? >> Even if it was Even if it was, is it consensual or not? >> I mean is it just saying wild things? Like what is Is it >> Listen, it >> it? >> He's He He He's fantasy was that he wanted to be accountable. That was his like fantasy. That was his kink. Now, it was fake, but if it if he was in a situation where it could have been real, yeah, he would have tried A HEART. IF >> IF ARMIE Hammer >> If Armie Hammer had the money to arrange this, and some people in our country do, um if you had the money to arrange it, he's trying a heart. 1,000%. And by the way, doesn't make me hate him. Doesn't make me hate him. As long as the person was dead already. I'm against it. I would never do it. But if you told me, this is how open I am to different people. If you told me Armie Hammer uh there was a Somebody died, and there was a heart, and Armie Hammer Hammer tried a little bit of the heart. I'd go, "Hey, fine. Live and let live." >> Do you know the story of General Butt Naked? >> General Butt Naked is a a guy in Liberia. So Liberia is a part of Africa. I don't want to this up. So let's be let's check on this. I think what happened in Liberia is they released a bunch of slaves from the United States and sent them to Liberia like after slavery was abolished. >> And I think Liberia has had a a series of civil wars like really crazy brutal ones. And in one of them there was this guy named General Butt Naked and Vice covered this guy. They they interviewed him and essentially now he's a priest. He's a preacher and he gave his love to Jesus Christ and now he's saved. But back then >> Well, good for him. >> talk about how he would go into war completely naked and then they would kidnap children of the opposing army and cut their heart out and eat it for protection. >> That's that's a certainly an extreme way to do it. But he did that. >> But then he found Jesus. So it's okay. >> Well, it is certainly better and that's um wouldn't the Mayans kind of do that or was that human sacrifice? >> They did a lot of human sacrifice along with the Aztecs. What what happened with Liberia? Is that an accurate depiction? I don't want to this up. So Liberia was established in 1822 by the American Colonization Society as a refuge for formerly enslaved and freeborn black Africans to relocate to Africa. Yeah, there it is. Over several decades roughly roughly 16,000 freed slaves known as Americo-Liberians migrated there. While envisioned as a sanctuary, the nation later faced its own internal scandals regarding forced labor and human exploitation. >> Uh-huh. Um see if you can find that General Butt Naked guy though. This this guy this whole story is crazy. Is this it? Okay. Jeez, yeah. >> Formed his own militia of several dozen fighting several dozen fighters known as the Naked Base Commandos or Butt Naked Brigade, most of whom were children as young as nine operating under the Monrovia area with his unit. Uh how do you say his name? Blahi? Blaha- Blahi? I'm not sure how to say his name. Became known as wearing only shoes and magic charms and eventually adopted the nom de guerre General Butt Naked. His fighters followed his patterns of dress which in line with his distorted emulation of animist tradition believed he could believed could make one immune to bullets. To fund his wartime activities he and secure a steady supply of drugs for his fighters Blahi allegedly traded locally mined diamonds and gold to Mexican drug cartels in exchange for guns and cocaine. Let's go. >> That's right. >> He conscripted many of his fighters and according to some accounts laced the food he fed them with cocaine along with showing them Jean-Claude Van Damme films and uh to uh explaining that to them that killing people was a game in an effort to uproot the fear of death. Uh his fighters he and his fighters perpetrated numerous atrocities although the exact extent of the crimes they committed have been subject to dispute. Frequently discussed the alleged atrocities he perpetrated which according to Blahi including murders, cannibalism, and human sacrifice. He has repeatedly estimated that the Naked Base Commandos were ultimately responsible for 20,000 deaths, a claim which has come under criticism. >> Okay. I mean and he's alive now and he's religious. >> He's a preacher now. Yeah. >> Have him on and I bet he's a lovely person. That's the thing. >> He should have him on. >> I'd By the way, I would he has an open invitation. He's I open invitation. >> Look, he's got Jesus on his shirt. >> He's led a full life and there's something about someone who has led a full life. This man has led a full life. There he is. >> Looks like Beetlejuice from Howard Stern. Crazy. It's a >> Imagine seeing a dude naked with dong flopping running at you with an AK-47 with kids blood all over his face. >> I mean that's that's I mean that's disturbing, but I imagine that there are very rich people in our country seeing that and paying good money to see it. >> One of the things that we were talking about with before the show started. We were out in the hallway. We were talking about how there's a giant chunk of the world that's >> And what's coming into England, it's not it's not unusual for other parts of the world. You know, if you go to Karachi, that's that's what life is chaos. Like just chaos is making its way into these protected bubbles and that's what's freaking people out. >> We live in a very privileged even even the poorest in the the worst, which is obviously, you know, it's not to minimize their struggles. But if you go to any of those third world countries, you're very aware of how privileged you are to live in a Western country. And you know, it also makes a lot of sense why the people in those third world countries would want to leave them and go to other places for opportunity and I think immigration's had a lot of positive impacts on America and it's had a lot of positive impacts on Britain and other countries and it's not it's not the idea that immigration is all bad or all good. It's the idea that like you have to do things a certain way because, you know, societies are fragile. This is what we're learning. We're learning that societies are more fragile. When I grew up, that wasn't a a common thought that our society was very fragile. Right. We thought it was very strong. Right. actually thought nothing could break us. And then you look at a couple years of a pandemic and most of the downtowns of the American cities don't look the same. Commerce has changed in a dramatic way. The Iran war proved that, you know, militarily our military is obviously brave men and women, they're amazing, but like the changing nature of warfare has made military campaigns very difficult. It's hard to look at this Iran war as a victory. It's almost impossible unless you're completely dishonest. I don't think anyone is looking at it as a victory. Um so I think our vulnerability in you know, to threats foreign and domestic, we are more aware of that now than we have ever been how fragile societies are. So when you demographically change a society very quickly, which has never happened historically, it took wars, long periods of immigration. Now it's overnight. People have to adjust to a new cultural and and sometimes economic reality. That's a very disruptive thing and societies are very fragile and you've got to be very careful about how you alter and change a society because if you do it too quickly, there's a tremendous backlash. And you have to make sure that people want it changed. That people are on board with it. Not everyone. No one's on board with everything, but like if you went to a lot of people in these countries that live in the bigger cities, they would probably be very pro immigration. And and because immigration has a lot of clear benefits to them. They get food delivered all the time. They have access to a lot a wide variety of goods and services that immigrants bring. A lot of them are awesome, a lot of great food, you know. So obviously, but again, if you went out into the suburbs and you went out into areas where the economies have stagnated, areas where maybe you've had scandals like this, grooming scandal, and things like that. Um Sweden whose crime rate has skyrocketed because you've brought in a lot of people from other places that are selling drugs. And not all of them, obviously, but like if you look at that and those people have a much more negative view of it because they don't connect the benefits of it because they don't they don't feel them in their life. >> Right. They were living pretty sweet. >> They were living good. >> They were living pretty sweet. They're riding their bicycles and eating herring. >> Pretty safe out there. >> Pretty safe and doing what they wanted to do. And then, you know, you have this influx of people you now have real poverty. You now have a lot of people >> brought in people that came from a war-torn part of the world. >> country. >> And not everyone's going to be General Butt Naked who becomes a Christian pastor and is probably lovely now. You probably see him in HEB, you're like, "Sweetheart." Ate a few people, children maybe, but now it's better. That guy, not everyone's going to convert. Not everyone's going to be you know, you're going to bring people in that are People are products to an extent of their environment. Like we all are. So, the idea that like you know, women have less rights in these countries. So, the courtship rituals in these countries are different. The familial relations are different. That's just the way it is. So, and and a lot of people there like that. So, you know, why would why would those beliefs and systems of change just because you happen to be living in Ireland? >> Why would you think Irish women or British women would necessarily or inherently get more respect than your wives, daughters, sisters, whatever? And I'm not saying that it's all like throughout the entire Islamic world. I think there's a lot of diversity in the Muslim world. And there are lots of countries where there's arguments that women are safer than they are in America. But there's a lot of countries where that's not the case. And women have far fewer rights and and it's pretty barbaric. And I don't know why those attitudes would change when they are just in a different physical location. >> The spectacular bizarreness of it is that the really kind left-wing people who oppose toxic masculinity. >> Oppose this sort of society that's that that we're talking about this this male-dominated society. Like you're inviting in something that literally has that as its doctrine. >> Well, they think it can be tamed. So, here's the thing with those people. They love a challenge. This is the I can fix him version of it. And to an extent cultural attitudes do change over time. People do assimilate to certain practices. That's not a completely ridiculous thing to think, but they really believe that once all of these people come to these countries and see how great it is to be a childless 40-year-old woman working in data entry at a large fascist corporation that's gay on pride month. The corporation goes gay. And when they see how happy she or he or they is living in a society where you don't own anything. You know what's interesting about family? I just spoke to a a comedian who went on a world tour and he was in India and he was talking about poor people in India don't live on the street, they live in slums. Which it's it's better. It's better to live in slums than the street. Because a lot of poor people are with their families. And they won't cast their family out. Um family in America almost means like nothing. Like we've we've kind of we've everything's such an individual pursuit that family means nothing. like that's reinforced like I I am in an argument with my father whose wife has different political views on certain things. So we haven't spoken in a little bit. My cousin's getting married. And I told I have a therapist now that I've had for 6 months who I don't know if it's good or I don't know if you ever know if a therapist is good or not. And I told my therapist you know my dad and his wife are going to be there and I haven't spoken to them but I love my cousin and I want to support her marriage. I want to go. And my therapist goes, "Well, you don't have TO GO." SO MY THERAPIST GOES "IF YOU FEEL LIKE it's going to make you happy, go." So therapy in our country is has become a way to kind of enable like sick people to just become selfish psychopaths. And family in America means almost nothing. And it is reinforced how little family means because like doctors will tell you, "Yeah, it. It's your father. Who cares?" it's it's basically a thing where like I think when you go to these other countries and you realize how deeply rooted a lot of things are in family and culture and tradition. And then we come from a country where like almost very little is. I'm not saying people don't have great families here but like you know, America's about you. And it's not about If you don't agree with your sister, her. If your mother disagrees with you, block her. That's our country. And in other countries, that's unheard of. Like that's unheard of. Like it it doesn't happen. you know, the comedian was explaining to me like in India, there's there's like a lot less of a drug problem in certain areas and he would and he was wondered why. And he goes "Well, people don't want to do drugs to like disgrace their family." Even poor people. Even poor people will be like, "I don't want to be a drug addict cuz my family's going to think bad about that." >> Whereas here, there's people that'll shoot up in front of their parents. You know what I mean? Like So, it's just a different it like it's it's it culturally we've gotten to this point where people are having less children, family means very little. So, then what has replaced that? It's clearly the state and corporations. >> And ideology. >> And ideology. So, they've replaced families and communities. >> Well, the ideology's your community because you're online most of the time. >> And a giant percentage of the interactions you have with people is on social media. >> So, I think that like that world, we have a a pretty secular world. W- What is that? That is so interesting. >> CBD. I thought it was something that >> No, it's CBD vape. >> I thought it was somebody gave you something that's like it's you're going to about to transcend or something. >> Oh, no. I don't think you do that. >> it's DMT. >> Imagine. >> I'm bored with you. I'm going somewhere else for a few minutes. >> When's the last time you've done DMT? >> It's been a while. >> Interesting. Should I do it? Should we all do it? >> I'm going to have a cigarette. >> Are you thinking about it? >> I'm thinking about maybe doing it. >> of people have asked me about it. >> It's cuz >> Recently. Seems like it's in the >> molecule thing years ago was an awesome documentary. >> You know this Al Andrew Gallimore guy? Do you know what he's doing? >> So, he's uh what is his exact discipline? Is he a psychologist? Um he's doing these things in a country where it's legal, where you fly there and you do a 5-hour DMT experience, like intravenous. He's a chemical pharmacologist, neurobiologist, and a writer. One of the most world's leading experts on psychedelics. Very interesting guy. And uh he's creating this place. I forget what it's called. Do you remember the name of the place? >> Not off the top of my >> A lot of people I know do ayahuasca. >> That's an orally active version of DMT. This thing seems a little little crazier because they can kind of regulate the dose much better and they can keep you there for a long period of time. Eleusius. Okay, so like like the Eleusinian Mysteries from the from ancient Greece. So this place it's in Bequia. Am I saying that right? In the Caribbean in March of 2026 and the aim is to study DMTX and DMT entities and attempt to communicate with these entities. So one of the things that he's saying, so he was just on someone's podcast. Maybe Danny Jones. He's been on this podcast as well. But one of the things that he was saying was that they keep going to the same place. That you can act like it's they're actually trying to create a map of whatever this experience is. So instead of doing it like an ayahuasca ceremony or doing it like you're smoking DMT and a you know, some sort of a psychedelic ceremony with your friends and it's a 15-minute experience. Instead of that, they're having repeated experiences in the same environments. Like there's actually a place that you can go and by regulating the dose >> somehow or another over a prolonged period of time, it allows you to maintain the state and keep entering deeper and deeper into whatever the this is, but it seems to be mappable. Okay, it was the basement. That's what it was. So it is AJ from the Why Files, which is an awesome YouTube show if you've never seen it before. And so he's talking about it doesn't take you to somewhere new. It unlocked what's always there. These guys are they're trying to develop like maps of what this is. So they keep experiencing they're they're they're charting out different entities that you experience and there's a bunch of different ones that you you experience and one of them I've seen multiple times is jesters. >> And these bizarre-looking psychedelic jesters >> if they were the original jesters. I wonder if like the reason why jesters dress the way they do with these dangling things off their heads cuz this is what you experience in the psychedelic state and they're trying to recreate it. But what they they've done when I've done it is mock me and make me realize that I'm taking myself seriously. Like one time there was like like fractal. There's millions of them. I don't know how many and they were all giving me the finger like this. >> And I was like uh and it was a and I said I go I took myself too seriously. They go, "Yes." And they're going like that. That's it. It was like there's little corrections of your psyche that take place during these experiences. >> It's very weird and for >> to do it. >> Well, >> I'm scared I'll go in and it'll be fractals of J.D. Vance. >> It's all George >> Yeah, it's all J.D. Vance going, "You need to learn about AI." No, I um I don't know. I I I find it fascinating. >> Well, it is. It's definitely fascinating. Chase Hughes was just in the podcast and he did it somewhere in the United States where they did some 5-hour DMT experience and he was you know, it's like changes you. Whatever you are now is a totally different version of who you were before you had that experience. >> Which is like life overall over you know, day after day, month after month, week after week, year after year, you become a different thing. You're a different person than you used to be. But sometimes an experience like a psychedelic experience can make it abrupt and then you instantaneously become a different person. >> It's so it's so fascinating because we are having all these conversations about aliens and entities and demons and >> it's connected. >> I think what these uh psychedelic things allow you to do is experiencing things you're experiencing things that are already there that have been there all the time. You just lack the ability to see them. You're you're tuning into it pharmacologically. Like there's they're changing the chemistry of your brain and it's not an alien chemical. That's the nutty part about it. DMT is produced by the human body. It's produced in the in the brain. It's produced in the liver. I think in the lungs. >> it releases when you die? >> I don't think it's very poorly understood. It's there's not I mean there's been some work done on it. One of the big ones was Rick Strassman. He wrote a book called DMT the Spirit Molecule and he did this it was really kind of brilliant. He had an FDA study that he got this is all like government approved study on psychedelics under the guise he wants to find out how bad they are for you. >> So he told them we want to study the dangers of these drugs. >> Right and that's why he got all the money. >> Yeah and so then he writes his book like this shit's amazing. >> Smart. >> And by doing that and then studying uh they studied the Cottonwood Research Foundation. They're studying where DMT is coming from. So like the thought was that it's coming from the pineal gland. So the pineal gland is like literally a third eye in the middle of your head. But now they think it's coming from the whole brain. They they don't really there's you're the human body produces that's the most important part. So the human body produces this of the most potent of all psychedelic chemicals that transports you into another world. Like how weird is it that the body produces a gateway to some other place? Now whether it's perceived or a hallucination the experience is the same. So you can get hung up all the time on the oh you're just seeing things that aren't there. These are visions. Okay, maybe. Maybe what you're doing is experiencing something that's real. Like it might not be something that you could put on a scale. It might not be something that you can measure with a ruler, but it doesn't mean it's not real. And I think we are very arrogant in our assumptions that we have an understanding of all that exists. With all that we know about bacteria and molecules and the cells and the >> the it mitochondria and then subatomic particles and like what there's the the just the reality that we've observed is so bizarre. The idea that we know what's real and what's not real and you could say "Oh, it's just a hallucination." This is the the reality is you go to Tim Hortons, you get yourself a donut and you go to work. >> No, I think I have a feeling that what that experience is is you being able to see something that exists around you. >> Well, a lot of people are very hopeful. I wasn't one of them per se, but this idea that like the we're on the edge of some disclosure that the government was going to start telling us things about extraterrestrials and like remember >> Well, the creepiest one that kept going around was that um they had brought together a bunch of pastors to talk to them about disclosure because disclosure disclosure is going to disrupt the fabric of society so greatly and the the question was what were they going to tell them? And so what I have been hearing from people that supposedly know things about UFOs was that they were told that religion was created by aliens to keep people in line and that humans are the product of accelerated evolution and they needed some sort of an origin story that made sense with rules and morals and ethics and guidelines to follow and something to worship because without that people are lost. And so that these aliens have created that. >> Well, please let Trump say that in a press conference. He's the president to say that. >> Yeah, I got to talk to him. I'll set it up with him. >> To get on there and go, "Guys, listen. Just We don't know what's going on. The straits of Hormuz are open, they're closed, they're open, they're closed. Who gives a anymore? Anyway, there is no god. You were all created by aliens and you were told a bunch of lies about it. Good luck. Keep going to work. Market's up. Straight Straight's open. Market's up. >> It's not even that there is no god. It's that the god story that you've been told is It's It's formulated in a way for your tribal primate brain to accept and understand. >> there's probably a true story to all of it. If you go back far enough and if you got the actual events that they were trying to lay out, there's probably There's too much of too much of stuff that's in the Bible that like is that historically verifiable. >> Totally. But do you think they didn't tell people that because they thought it would be too disruptive? >> Well, here's the thing. There's a lot of stuff that, you know, what When you talk about the Bible, right? You're talking about a series of stories. You especially when you get to the Old Testament. It's a series of stories. And some of these stories aren't in the Bible that were a part of the like the religious canon of the day. And one of them is the Book of Enoch. So, Anna Paulina Luna told me about She's like She's like, "You really have to read that." And I was like, "Okay." Like she was so adamant about it. I'm like, "Okay, let me let me read it." So, I listened to it on tape in the sauna, which is the perfect way to do it. I'm listening to an audiobook. It's 195°. I'm sweating my balls off. I'm I'm dying in there and I'm listening to this crazy account >> that is in the same Dead Sea Scrolls as they found the Book of Isaiah. >> Same collection of these religious texts. And it's all about how the watchers came down and mated with the daughters of man and chose them as wives and then created this race of beings called the Nephilim, which were giants that ruled the earth. Like this is in the Bible. It's They talk about the Nephilim in the Bible. >> They talk about Enoch. Like he's referenced in the Bible. >> Book of Enoch, the stories that are in the book of Enoch are bananas. Like completely bananas. And the only reason why it's not in the Bible, a bunch of rabbis decided that it didn't align with the Torah. The Torah, the Talmud, I forget which one. But they decided like this this this contradicts some of these stories that are in other religious texts, so we're going to keep that one out. >> Interesting. Cuz it was a it was a collection of these things that's all together. >> Who are these rabbis? >> Exactly. >> I mean, who are all these people that wrote these things down? You know, I have this bit where I read out of the book of Ezekiel. There's like the hilarious parts of the book of Ezekiel. And then there's also parts that sound like it's they're talking about a UFO. Like these profound experiences. Then other things were talking about a prostitute. It's very funny. >> But this whole thing is a bunch of people's interpretations of stories written down, passed down generation to generation, written largely intact once it was an original piece. So like they found the book of Isaiah in the Dead Sea Scrolls, and it's identical to the book of Isaiah that is a thousand years newer. So that was older than the book of Isaiah that they had by a thousand years, the oldest one they ever found, and it was verbatim. >> So they once they got these stories down, they they wrote them over and over and over again, and like priests would learn to do that, and monks would learn to do that with their religious texts. They would rewrite things over and over again as part of the practice. And someone knows You some See in some subterranean part of the government they know something or many things that they're not going to tell people because it would be disturbing or disruptive. >> story about Jimmy Carter. No, the story about Jimmy Carter was Jimmy Carter, I believe in 1969 he had some sort of an very strange UFO experience that was very real to him. Very bizarre, saw something. And part of his thing was once he gets into office, he wants to tell people. The story is that he was briefed. They explained to him something about the reality of the UFO experience, like what it what it really is. And he was crying. That he wept openly. So, what could that mean? Like, what would that mean? Well, he was a very religious guy. >> He was Yeah, kind of a is that what you're >> He was a a >> And this Habitat for Humanity, I never understood. I thought it was, >> I think he was a genuinely genuinely good person. >> Of course he was. He built houses >> people. Yeah, he was Never enriched himself. >> But he was also, if you read books about him, he was kind of an operator, too. >> Uh-huh. >> He was kind of a He was into the peanut stuff, right? He was a peanut farmer or something. Yeah. You know, he was Nobody gets to be the Yeah, he was sweeter. >> Sweetest. >> Like, one of the sweetest of all the presidents. >> But so, they Who is doing this explain It's just the Men in Black people from the depths of Raven Rock or Cheyenne military or wherever the hell they are. >> What they could be doing is covering up years of lying to Congress and misappropriation of funds for all these black ops programs. And the way they can get out of jail, because if they go and if they go and tell the government, "Oh, yeah, by the way, we lied to Congress for 50 years." There's no solid verifiable evidence that Jimmy Carter cried. Of course there's no solid >> Jamie, stop being a narc. >> He's a narc. >> Sound of control. >> The Carter cried over UFO story is based on second or third hand anecdotes. Those are my favorite. And is not confirmed by Carter himself or primary official sources. Uh I think it's true. >> I think it's true, too. >> About his 1969 sighting, Carter described seeing a strange light, but did not mention crying or being emotionally shattered by it. Yeah, but I don't think that's what they're saying. They're saying he was emotionally shattered by the disclosure. Cried after UFO briefing. >> got to live with that knowledge. So, he's just got to go around now and >> Richard Dolan, who is by far one of the best guys to read about about UFOs and UAPs. Very balanced guy and you like very evidence-based guy. He he includes a lot of crazy stories, but he never goes along with them. >> Dolan's really good. He's got a bunch a bunch of books. So, I don't know if it's true. It's his podcast. >> Is the Jake Barber guy real? >> He's the guy that said that he actually had to move a UFO, right? With a helicopter? >> talked to him. >> I was just watching it, but it's too long. These UFO guys, it's all three or four out. Like it's not >> Michels does a lot of very in-depth ones with these guys. And that's long But But the good thing about that is if someone's like really full of after a couple of hours, you kind of say you see tendencies that maybe they're they they exaggerate or they make things up or they leave stuff out or whatever it is. But something's going on, right? There's something that people keep seeing. There's enough radar information. There's enough video that doesn't make any sense. >> We never found out what those drones were, remember that? They're all around the bases in New Jersey and stuff like >> Yeah, it was crazy. There was I mean people were scared to fly. >> People say it's a domestic It was domestic. It was us. That's what I've heard. But then, you know, who knows? >> Could be China flexing and pulling their dick out saying, "Right. Check out what we have, motherfuckers." >> Who knows? >> Who knows? But there was a lot of things that those things were doing that we don't know that they can do. One of the things like they were flying for hours at a time. And So, what's the fuel source? Cuz it's not batteries. Downed US pilot reported seeing Iranian drone swarm in jellyfish formation. Whoa. Well, they're probably getting drones from, you know, >> Totally. China, China, Russia, you know. >> Of course. So, the highest end of high-end government drones that we don't know about. Who knows what those things can do? Multiple drones interconnected and moving at as one with smaller drones below the bigger drones like legs. One of the sources familiar with the pilot's witness account told CNN, "Real alien shit." Another source told CNN the pilot described witnessing a minefield of drones in the air. Holy When did this happen? >> This is 13 hours ago this was posted. >> So, 13 hours ago this F-15 got down? >> I mean he's talking in the reporting it. So, I don't the actual event. >> Bro, how nuts is that? They got taken out by alien drones. In April. Whoa. So, he ejected from the aircraft. The Iranian drones hovering in the air moving as one in a formation that resembled a jellyfish. dude. >> Yeah, I mean so there is a there is a chance that it is our it's DARPA and it's all of these countries that are you know you have these black projects, they have these secret defense projects and they're saying it's extraterrestrial. >> I think if I was running uh an undercover operation for as many years as these people probably have been doing. And what Eric Weinstein thinks, he thinks it's like a separate branch of physics. He said he thinks there's a bunch of physicists they have hired >> So, >> This is the story of the we went and did the crazy invasion to get these guys back. >> Oh, this is those guys? >> pilots, yeah. >> Oh, this is how they got taken out? >> I mean this is >> Oh, wow. >> This opens up a lot more questions. >> Wow. Wow. >> Right? >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> the heart the heartbeat thing. That was the whole, right? >> That's what they said, yeah. >> What was it? >> So, the heartbeat thing was the thing that they said that they were able to locate this guy's heartbeat, his his very unique heartbeat in the mountains where he was hiding. Wow. And everybody was like, "Well, that's bullshit." And we're like, "I don't know. I don't know." And it's And it's based on some sort of quantum something or another. What is it called again? >> the White House said that Did you see that today? >> What did they say? What? >> That they did they posted something on their off pop that they're going to announce something about quantum computing. >> Oh, Christ. >> Do you think that God's about to get born. >> a joke about Q with it. That's sort of why I asked if you guys had seen that. >> What's the joke about Q? >> Like I'll find the post. I think they have drones that move like UFOs. I think for sure. >> Where are they getting this technology? >> I don't know. >> think it's possible extraterrestrials are giving us technology? >> It is possible. So, the reason why it else will be Q posting today. What? >> trolling and having fun. >> scroll it down it says And by Q we mean quantum. >> Stay tuned. >> Here's the Look how much they're trolling. A lot of space between the words. The QAnon people are the most committed people I've ever >> people who are so committed to anything. >> The UFO people are close. >> Sure. I mean the Q people are 10 years in going, "Trust the plan. It's coming." And you go, "Guys, it's unbelievable how how dedicated they are to the plan and that it it's still morphing and going in different directions and the data centers are actually prisons for people who did the vaccine. They're not data centers. They're still going. And that level of commitment is what America's about. It's about that. It's about not giving up. Don't give up. Don't give up. You're too deep in to give up. I My advice to anyone in that movement, stay in it. Because you there's no there's nothing good on the outside. Reality is not good. Stay in that movement. Take it as far as you can. >> What would the government possibly have to announce about quantum computing? >> No idea. >> What was the quantum heartbeat thing? What was that thing called? How do they locate that that gentleman? >> I don't remember them never coming out and saying because people were speculating that like how could you even do it? I think some of them on the podcast next day was like that's not how quantum stuff works. >> Right, but I don't know if they know that for sure. So they don't really know what the technology is. But what was the technology that the government described? Cuz they described it as very bizarre and there was a name for it that involved something quantum. And they said that somehow or another they were able to detect this guy's heartbeat. >> Unique heartbeat from I think was like was it 70 or 700 miles away? >> This was posted on the New York Post. >> Secret never-before-used CIA tool that helps find airman downed in Iran. If your heart is beating, we will find you. Wow. So this is it. Long-range quantum magnetometry to find the electromagnetic signal of a human heartbeat that pairs with the data pairs the data with artificial intelligence software to isolate the signature from background noise. And so how what is the range on this stuff? >> Well, this was 40 miles I think they found this guy's what the claim was. >> But didn't they say the range is up to like 70 miles? Something along those lines. So I don't know if even though >> How long have they had this? >> Is it even real? >> Yeah, they >> But this is the thing. It's like is it real? Like so this is a post that's in the New York Post and I think it was from Did someone release this as a statement? Like what did they do to say they did it? The confirmate Okay, so >> Barcliff Saturday morning. Yeah, there's CIA director talking about. Yeah, there you go. CIA it's missing American from 40 miles away. That was unclear if >> That's Trump saying that. Not So these are two different or three different speeches all going in together. I guess maybe they spoke at the same press conference. >> So here's the other thing. If that technology doesn't exist, right? And they just made that up to cover for technology that does exist. So maybe there's technology that does exist that's some sort of large-scale satellite imagery of the earth it gets down to like a grain of sand and they can find anybody anywhere. They could just doubt find out where the plane is scan the area bam there he is. >> There he is. >> Okay, we don't want to say we have this. What are we going to say? Let's say we have quantum heart rate magnetometry. Yeah, we can find we can find good >> We couldn't find Ghislaine Maxwell in New Hampshire. >> When that came out people were asking yeah why couldn't you use it to find >> in New Hampshire. Yeah, where is you know whatever. >> Well, it could be that that technology just recently got invented. That's also possible. >> Well, there's still missing people Guthrie's missing still, right? I don't we shouldn't have missing people then if that technology exists. >> That's a weird thing and my heart goes out to her but that's the craziest thing I've ever heard. >> Yeah, that's a weird one and didn't they like they looked at family members as suspects, right? >> I think they looked at family members as is she back and I think she's back to work. And isn't she back to work? >> I don't know. Did you what did you say there's a break in the story? >> No, I I think the story got updated recently. Yeah, there's something about a note ransom note claim Nancy Guthrie died after abduction and >> Well, well that's a well, you're not going to get ransom then. >> Second ransom note claims she died. Yeah, this is probably >> a that's a horrible ransom note. So someone posted a note saying that she died. I want money. It's a ransom note that says she died. >> What about what if it's she died just give us what if it's she we're sorry she died just give us what you want. It's not a it's not a specific amount of money. It's just give what you feel is It's like church give what you can. We're sorry she passed away give what you can. We're not going to say a specific amount of money. >> So the note sent days after the disappearance. Oh, so this is not new. Oh, indicated she had died but contained no request for payment for the release of her body. Three people familiar with the matter said though the existence of the note was known the specific contents had not been previously disclosed. So, it's just the contents were disclosed that they knew that she was dead. >> It seems like it's an inside thing. It seems like it if someone's involved that knew them. I mean, I hate to think that, but it does feel like it's >> What was the Was there a request for money? What was the first request? >> Originally, yeah. I think it was a bunch of Bitcoin or something they wanted. >> What it Well, let's find out what it was. >> It's a It's a horrible thing, obviously. But it does seem like this is a inside job. >> Well, someone certainly Okay, the ransom note. >> The family's involved. Maybe not. I don't know. >> So, this is all bringing up stuff about Reba. >> Ask AI. Press AI mode. >> I can't I can't do that. >> You can't do it? Okay, put it in there. Put it in Perplexity. How much do you think they asked for? I bet 10 million. >> 10 million? >> For mom? Five? >> Five? >> Let's see. >> 10's a lot. >> Multi-million dollar payments in cryptocurrency, mostly Bitcoin, with amounts ranging from about 4 to 6 million and set deadlines, sometimes with escalating or else consequences. >> Terrible. This is This is insane, but think about it. Is that random? I guess it could be. >> It could be, but there was There was some concern that it was a family member. >> that it was something that a family member did this. >> Yeah. Who knows? >> It's sick. >> The Bitcoin thing's weird, too. Like, you could transfer money in Bitcoin. >> There was a group of people that wanted me to advertise on my podcast, and it was a um like a meme coin thing, and that was like a platform, whatever. And then I was like, but their like identities were shrouded in the people knew who they were, but they were also very secretive because they didn't want to get kidnapped, and they split their time between Dubai and London. And CAA, you know, came to me and they were like, "Hey, we want to give you a bunch of money." And I go, "What are they?" And CAA is like, "Well, you know, it's crypt, you know, they don't, you know, I mean, demons from hell. No offense, love my people, but they were I was like, I got to meet them. I got to meet them and sit down and talk to them as human beings and like ask them what their company does and everything like that. And then immediately once I requested that, they said, "Okay, they'll all meet you in Dubai and talk to you about the company." I said, "I can't. I need to know like I know like, you know, whatever." They pulled the offer and wouldn't meet. >> Well, so there's there's all these cuz by the way, here's a great way to someone is to advertise on their show and then go, "By the way, the money came from Russia." >> And you didn't even know that. >> Well, didn't that happen to a bunch of right-wing influencers where they a part of some >> hard to know who knew what, but like it's great It's what a great way to just make people appear compromised. >> you go, "Where's this money coming from?" Maybe it's an intelligence agency. Maybe it's ours. Maybe it's someone else. But you start going like, "All right, I need to sit down with you, have dinner with you." It doesn't mean that I would necessarily be able to know who like if these guys were legit or not, but the fact that they wouldn't even meet for a dinner tells me that um something was up. Also, a friend of mine who's working at a company that's producing young show long-form shows for YouTube creators told me that a lot of the money is coming from Democrat super PACs because they want a captive audience to be programmed politically. And not only Democrat super PACs, but like super PACs that are associated with certain issues and things like that. So what they're going to start doing is like getting behind content and, you know, funding longer form things on social media platforms and and things like YouTube or whatever, and then those companies that are are are kind of in the background of this will then say, "Oh, we have an audience of 5 or 10 million people watching this. We can we can put political ads on it and and whatever else." >> Jeez. >> So, I mean, this is kind of I think the future is going to be all many things like this. >> And when you can do it through something like crypto, like if you can hide your identity, like who knows if it's even a real company. It could be a company designed entirely just for influence. >> It's it's very questionable. You have the intelligence world, you have the crypto world, and you know, you have the world of international crime syndicates. Like they all are live in that world. Um and I'm not saying people that are into crypto are inherently suspect in any way. Obviously, they're not. But there is a lot of uh going on with the intelligence stuff in the crypto. It's like obvious. >> Clearly. Clearly. But when whenever there's money if the amount of money that you can make in crypto is bananas and it doesn't make any sense, right? So, whenever there's money and drugs, right? Like this is Iran-Contra. Whenever there's money in anything, they they find a way to get a part of that money. >> I think what concerns people partially about the this administration is some of the crypto stuff. I think people are concerned with some of the coins and some of the you know, crypto >> Well, Melania coin's legit. >> That one I love. But the rest, I worry. No, but I think I think it's a fair concern. >> It is cuz it's legal. It's legal, but it's like should it be? >> Is it Is it Should it be? Should it be? Is it Should it be? For sure. >> I mean, there's some freedom to you being able to make your own coin and back it with money, I guess. But it's also a way that you can launder money. And it's also a way you can pay people off for stuff. >> And dupe people into spending their money. You know Do you know Like I think a lot of people yeah, I mean that poor girl, huh? >> girl, they got her. >> They got her. >> her. >> They got her. I hope she did well on >> she didn't. >> Really? >> Probably not. Certainly in terms of what she could be doing. >> Sad because as soon as they get mad at you for something like that, well then they don't like you anymore. >> the wrong thing and and it's sad. >> I don't know she's 22 or something. >> I also don't know if she was going to be Meryl Streep, but >> It was listen the cash money on the side makes more money than anybody. >> It's true. Um but I think it could have gone on longer than it What a What a society we live in. >> I mean I just that just hit me. That just like hit my brain that she makes more money than anybody and it's true. >> I was listening to your take on the White House UFC card being the end of MAGA. >> And that the moment when that guy said Michelle Obama was a man. >> Yeah. Well, it's just the greatest thing for if you're a deep deep hardcore and I don't even mean the like the America first principles. I just mean like you're a long for the ride. You're here for the party. There's a lot of MAGA people that I'm friends with that are deep they they're not political they're along for the party. They like the party. >> They want fun. They're in Florida. It's 4:00 p.m. They're drunk. You know what I mean? And they're they're in for the fun and it's fun. They have like they have like boat shows and regattas where like a bunch of boats will go out with Trump flags. When they're watching that UFC event in their house in St. Augustine or Tampa or or West Palm, whatever it is and that guy stands up because Michelle Obama is a man it's the culmination of things that you they're not going to beat that. It's hard to beat that. That would There were houses that cheered when that happened. It was 100% >> do you think? Over the whole country. >> It was audible in Florida. Florida I know for sure it was audible for sure people cheered and it was like listen >> Like outside bars. >> Yeah, you and it was a party. The fights were good. You you know, it's like to me it's like there's this there's this every cultural thing has a moment where it just explodes. And it's over after that, you know? It's like Hunter Thompson has that famous quote about it where he was part of this thing and then it just, you know, we saw it happen like celebrity culture. A lot of it like that imagine video during COVID was kind of the end of it. Like people are like shut up. >> Like it really it was like they they did that video and they didn't know it at the time, but people really started to turn on them. They were like just shut up. >> the other one, the BLM one. >> Totally. All of them. Sorry sorry to be white or whatever it was. >> Same >> Same kind of thing. People just said, okay, enough of this. And I do think that every movement just gets to a point where you've done all you can do. You've done all you can do. And when you are standing in the octagon of a UFC fight on the White House lawn and you're asked if you have anything to say and you scream Michelle Obama's a man, that is the clock has struck midnight. That's that. I mean, I don't know what else you could do. >> That guy, Josh Barnett, >> you know, that's like he's got a a stick. Like he's got a character. >> Totally fun. >> Hulk. And so he's basically like a pro wrestling bad guy who also is a really good fighter. >> So there's a there's a real problem there cuz this guy keeps winning. >> Yeah, and he says crazy stuff. >> Well, they probably in retrospect, >> if they wanted to avoid this, probably shouldn't have had him fight on the White House lawn. Because if he said that at the T-Mobile Arena or in Madison Square Garden, >> outrageous, but not that big a deal. >> But it's the yeah, but here's what should have happened afterwards. Michelle Obama should have made an UNDERTAKER LIKE ENTRANCE. LET'S GO IN. >> ALL OF A SUDDEN THE lights go out. >> The light goes dim. >> And then the light goes on on the balcony. >> It's Michelle Obama. >> comes on a on a cord that she flies over. >> If Michelle Obama had made an Undertaker-like entrance and got in the stage and then body slammed like can you imagine? Unbelievable. >> That would have been amazing. >> The country just exists for ratings now anyway. It's all it exists for. It's just that's all we're doing anymore. That would have been unbelievable. Here it is. >> This isn't the Undertaker but this is what you guys are I think we're supposed to say. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. >> She's in the ceiling the entire time. >> Michelle Obama comes down. You see Trump Trump starts doing his dance. He's doing his Trump dance. Michelle Obama comes down. She's got a cape. >> Bro, that would be the end. >> It would have been unfuckingbelievable and she would have been president next. She would have been president next with no election. >> NO ELECTION. >> VINCE IS going to stand up TO THAT? SHE SHOULD HAVE descended from the rafters in a cape. Fought that guy. You know you know choreographed >> Just body slam him. >> It's fun. Fake. And then she does an uppercut and then he's on a on a cord and he sails out. Unbelievable missed opportunity. Missed opportunity. Because why not? Why not have some fun? >> Yeah, why not? >> Why not have a little fun? >> They had it there they said or some wrestling event there. They could they could still pull it off. >> They could do it and if she's smart she hears this and she's on her phone with her people. Don't sue them. They were going to sue them. They thought about suing them. It's like What? Stop with the suing all the time in this country. >> Do something fun. >> I agree. >> Too much suing. >> Well, there's there is this moment where the UFC thing was going on where like the planes flew overhead. Where it just like I'm like is this even >> It's it was a it was it was wild. It's such an amazing spectacle. It's hard to top. >> It was pretty amazing. >> That's what I mean by that. >> piece of entertainment. >> It was also the only UFC card in the history of the the sport where every fight was a knockout. It's This was the that this is senior prom. Everyone's got to go to college next year. And you know, wherever they go, this is it. This is the party. >> Jack and Diane. >> after senior prom or you know, some party that you have senior you know, the summer and you're looking around at all your friends. You're all high and drunk. And you're looking around and you and if you're smart and most people a lot of them have this thought. They go, this is never going to be like this again. >> This will never be like this again. We'll never be able to get together on the White House lawn into motocross and watch UFC and call Michelle Obama a man. It started when he walked down the escalator. We went through a lot of things. The guy almost got shot. Who knows who did it? No one knows. No one seems to care. Whatever. Fine. Moving on. But you know, he's he's you know, he's gone through many iterations. He's been out. He's been in. It's the most It's the most interesting story really in recent human history. And and this is the party to throw. And it's wild because we're not going to win the Iran war. We're not going to win the Iran war. It seems very clear that it's very difficult to imagine a scenario where we come out with like a decisive victory. So instead of that, we did this. We did this. >> How is there no more open investigation into the assassination attempt? What happened there? Cuz that's where it can't say that he was told to stop the investigation. >> done? Do you know who you put in charge of it if you want it truly? And I'm being very serious. If you want an honest investigation, put Israel in charge. Joe, if you want If you want it done right, have them do it. That's all I'm saying. Just have them do it. Just have them do it. I I would trust them. >> they should look at the Charlie Kirk assassination as well? >> I would trust their conclusions. Have them do it. That would be my thought. Just Just a fun thought. >> There's a lot of people that think it was a hoax and that it was a set up. >> And if it was, I've said on my show, just tell us how you did it, cuz that's fun, too. It's fun. >> Pennsylvania men shot during Trump rally in Butler sue the United States. Two men who were wounded in the shooting, um they're suing James Copenhaver and David Deutch were shot during attempted assassination of Trump. Their attorneys filed federal lawsuits against the United States for their life-altering physical and emotional injuries, claiming those injuries were the direct result of negligence on the part of the United States Secret Service. Deutch was shot in the stomach while Copenhaver was shot twice. >> I mean, does suing ever end in this country? >> there's an argument that that was negligent negligence. >> Remember that woman, Kim Cheatle, who was in charge and then they put her back in a bunker? >> Who? >> She was in charge of the Secret Service, Kim Cheatle. >> too slow up there or something. Yeah, the roof was too slow up there or something. Yeah, the roof was too slow up there or something. >> she said the roof The roof was too sloped to get officers up there. >> even fall. He didn't roll off the roof. Like the whole thing was >> the slope of the roof that they were on was steeper. >> If it's a fake assassination attempt, I don't care. I want to know how it was done, and so does the rest of America. Produce a special where Bari Weiss interviews Donald Trump about how they faked the assassination attempt. Put it on CBS where she's doing And she's taking over CNN now. Phew. So, I think and she's now isolated herself on the sixth floor of CBS where she can no longer see the staff and they cannot approach her. >> Is that true? >> That is correct and she's guarded by guards. >> What? >> Where'd you hear this? >> This is in the news. She is she's in a bunker like Dick Cheney in the PIOC during 9/11 except it's Bari Weiss at CNN surrounded by guards and no one can and and it's like it's it's like a militarized zone. She's in a militarized zone. >> Bari in the bunker and Allison at the gates. >> Is this real? >> She's unbelievable. By the way, I like her more now and she hates me and that's sad. >> Why does she hate you? >> Well, you know, I've said things but here's THE THING. I LIKE her more now than ever. >> Did she start hating you after your hilarious impression? >> I She's She's She's turned on me um she turned on me uh a while ago. >> Turned on you how? >> She texted me and was like, "You're part of a world in which people are anti-Semitic and and I'm like, "Well, am I What am I What? What am I doing?" And she's like, "You're part of this thing and I was like, "Well, that's like What am I Why am I What is this guilt by association? I don't like this. >> Part of a thing that's anti-Semitic. >> Yeah, she's like, "You're part of a cultural space of anti-Semitism." And I'm like, >> So she's connecting you to anti-Semitism how? >> to all these different people because if the thing that she hated and the thing that she crusaded against was this whole idea that like she's applying the same principles that she supposedly didn't like, which is like, "If you're willing to have a conversation with somebody, you endorse every one of their views. Or if you question something like Israel, you hate Israel or you hate Jewish people, which is insane." >> And that was I thought she was the one who was like, "We should have nuance on the trans issue." What happened to that? >> What happened to being able to question gender ideology and all these things? Like why aren't we Where's the nuance? Where's the Why aren't we holding space for nuance, Barry? >> Mhm. CBS News boss Bari Weiss poised to oversee CNN editorial operations. Yeah, this is what he just said, right? Yeah, I saw that. >> But she's living her best life as people would say. This is what she was meant to do. And when someone steps into their truth, I support them. And she has stepped into her truth. She's exactly where she should be in a bunker guarded by the military while she systematically destroys uh CBS. She's stepping into her truth. This is what she was there She was put there to destroy it. She was obviously put there to destroy it. She wasn't put there to make it work. She put there to just destroy it. And she's doing it. >> Do you think they understood the amount of pushback that they were going to get? >> I don't think they can I think they said, "Listen, let's just put her in there and see what happens because who care Like the But it's like these legacy media institutions are dying. They're not turning around. No one's going back to watching the evening news, and they know that. These are billionaires. They're not idiots. The Ellisons are not dumb. They don't They said, "Let's have a little fun while this thing goes." >> It says she took the helm of the struggling organization last month with a mandate to shake it up following David Ellison-led Skydance takeover of CBS parent company Paramount in 2024. Paramount Skydance bought Weiss's online outlet The Free Press for a cool 150 million as she became editor-in-chief of CBS News. >> It's a lot of money for The Free Press. >> Well, no, because if you look at the podcast ratings, it was it was you, and then she was number two. >> Um so that's why No, she would get 7,000 YouTube views. And it seems high. It seems like a lot, but you know, when you take into account her cultural impact. >> It's interesting because like when it came to her like pushing against woke ideology that had infected the New York Times, she seemed really reasonable. And there's this very famous clip of her talking to Brian Stelter where she talks about the world gone crazy. >> Right. Remember that? The world gone mad? >> Where she's like very brilliantly lays out why if this is what you're saying, you know, when people are saying that silence is violence >> and not actual violence is violence, the world's gone mad. >> lays these all out and it's so brilliant. >> Well, there's got to be room for nuance. Like October 7th was horrible. Hamas is not good. We all know this. However, you also cannot look at what's going on the last few years and think that Israel has not number one perpetrate, you could call it I I call it a genocide, people can call it anything they want. Doesn't matter. It's a campaign of of mass murder where a lot of people have died, civilians have died, many children have died, people that are innocent have died. And they're doing they're starting to do something similar in southern Lebanon. And they're now talking about Turkey. Going by the way, Turkey also is a Turkey's a NATO country. So, the idea that any criticism of Netanyahu or the Israeli government or Israel or our relationship with Israel or the money makes you anti-Semitic is an insane thing. It's the exact thing that she fought against in race and gender. She fought against that Manichaean good and evil, black and white. She fought against it and she was right. She was correct to say you should be able to have conversations about when is it appropriate for a child to be exposed to certain ideas and when should they be able to make a determination about how they want to live their life. And like, when is it appropriate for people to call, you know, to to designate between a protest and a legit and a riot. And the silence is violence and all of that stuff. She had really pretty logical opinions on all that stuff, but when it came to that one issue, she seems very incapable of understanding any nuance or gray area or complexity regarding this particular issue. >> No, she is all in for Israel. >> And that's fine. That's her That's her choice and to and I get it. Um but it's so obvious when a Mark Levin goes, "The president's great cuz we're going into Iran because the president's great. He's the greatest leader of all time." And then he goes, "Well, this didn't work out like we thought. We're going to make a deal and we're going to try to, you know, and then Mark Levin goes, "This is a failure. This is a blunder. This is a strategic thing." And it's like, "For who?" Is it for us? It's not not a failure for like it's clearly a failure for us, but like it seems like the bigger failure would be for Israel that wants Iran neutered because they have aspirations regionally, globally, but certainly regionally. So, who's it a failure for? And that's a fair question. And I think it's like there's you've got to be able to have that conversation without being tarred and feathered as someone who's like a conspiracy mongering anti-Semite, which is like very There's a group of people that are, but a lot of people just want sanity and this is not this is not sane. >> And just like you were talking about with the banks forcing that down people's throats that that's going to make them Yeah. >> Same thing. >> Nobody understands blowback. Like the CIA term blowback when you like go into a country, kill everyone, and then go, "You like us, right?" And they go, "No. Not really. We killed your mother, but we're sorry, but you want the mall. We're going to build a mall. They go, "No, we're going to we're going to bomb you and try to kill you." This is blowback. There's blowback when you shut down conversations and and and In order to shut people up, you got to pay them or kill them. That's the only way to do it. If you don't pay people a lot of money or kill them, they're going to talk. They're and and if if you don't if you limit that, they're going to get angrier and the blowback is going to be intense. >> Well said. Yeah. >> Yeah, I mean, that's entirely accurate. >> CBS News, I'll go on. That's the thing. I have no beef with her. I like her. I like that she's in a bunker. I will go on to that show. I'm there. >> things that I thought was hilarious, there was some fake story. Was that they were going to bring me on for 60 Minutes. >> Everyone keeps saying that. I texted you about it. I'm like, "Are you doing 60 Minutes?" I thought that was wild. But why not? I mean, what you know, half the staff has left. One of that guy that guy Bill Pelley just got out. >> She got out and then she's got that Dokoupil, whatever his name is, in the evening news crying like a psychopath. >> Who's that? >> He's the guy who does the CBS Evening News and his first his first episode, he's in Miami and he's crying. Can you get that up? It's unbelievable. He's the anchor of the news. >> Why is he crying? >> He's crying because he's he starts talking about his family and how he grew up in Miami. It's unbelievable. This is the guy who was selected to to run the CBS Evening News, to be the anchor of the CBS Evening News. And like he does this thing where he's in Miami and they take him out of the chair because they want to start she's shaking it up. Barry's shaking it up. So instead of sitting at a desk and doing the thing, they bring him to Miami to like visit his childhood places and he starts sobbing in a I forget it was like a restaurant or something. Jamie, you can find it. >> didn't >> him crying for some reason. It was just talking. >> He's crying like a restaurant or he start he gets like choked up and it's deeply uncomfortable and it's really weird. And he starts talking about how he had a hard childhood or it's like unbelievable. >> This is the guy? Embarrassing first day's CBS Evening News Savage by staff. It's state TV. Whoa. A conversation with one of his handlers during an ad break. Pete Hegseth said during his interview with Tony How do you say his name? >> Dok- >> Dokoupil. We did it at Barry's request and because CBS News did something right on this. >> I wish you had him crying. I wish you had him in his in that restaurant. >> So his Marco Marco Rubio's moment is what he's talking about? >> is not the right thing to >> No, he's in Miami and and Dokoupil yeah, I mean yeah, he's this is psychotic. >> So he just keeps crying? >> It wasn't showing the video. >> Maybe that's his thing. You know, like George Hamilton was tan all the time? >> He's crying. He's talking about Yeah, look at this. Look at the This is the anchor of the CBS Evening News. >> So he's being interviewed? >> Yeah, can we listen to this? >> Trying to I can't Facebook's weird. >> Damn it. >> It doesn't let me control the player controls. >> There it goes. It was supposed to show >> Let me get a second here. >> Yeah, take it from the beginning so we know what he's crying about. >> What? It makes me emotional. It's so funny. I I didn't mean to I didn't think it would catch You know >> This is your favorite place in the world. Why? Why South Florida and Miami? Cuz you only have one childhood, right? Let me get a second here. >> No, you're okay. I can relate. This is home. >> People will uh to to to help people understand why I have such a reaction, uh Florida's where I grew up. We didn't get a lot of >> No, it's okay. >> Yeah, my grandmother's here, my father, my mother, my aunts and uncles, cousins. And it's where I would have spent all of my childhood, but we left uh because of my father, he got into trouble with business. It's like we laugh about it now, but he was a drug dealer. But he was a drug dealer, went to jail. It's kind of a haha thing that we say now, but the reason it's so emotional for me is because I feel like I was robbed >> It's kind of a haha thing. >> HE'S JUST HEAD OF THE CBS Evening News. He's the anchor of the CBS Evening News. This is what drives everyone so crazy about the world, how fake everything is. That's the guy? That's the best guy for the job? This is When I grew up, you would go see Whitney Houston and go, "Fuck, she's good. I can't sing like that. Who cares if she SMOKES CRACK? SHE DESERVES IT." You watch this and it drives you insane. You go, "This guy's crying, his father's a drug dealer? This is who's the best guy for the job?" He's going to have to report on that like like murder, war, famine, whatever, and he's crying in a in some Cuban restaurant about his drug dealer father? So they had to leave Miami? And no one believes anything's real anymore. This is a huge problem in our world. People that don't People go, "That's the guy? That's the anchor of the CBS Evening News?" It's crazy. >> Well, the other guy who was on a bunch of people attacked him after he left, right? So, he left and apparently he made it very public. >> Yes, Scott Pelley or something. >> Big public out >> Yeah, yeah. >> So, what was he pissed about? He He was saying something about they were going against science or it was Some of it had to do, I believe, with climate change. Some of it had to do with a bunch of other things that he disagreed with the the where the news organization Let's find out what his exact complaints were. >> Yeah, let's find out. I don't know what they were, but I Bari chairs the meetings there and really goes on and embarrasses herself and on the calls and stuff, has no idea what she's talking about. And >> So, here it is. Following his criticism, uh news editor Bari Weiss, 60 Minutes executive producer Nick Bilton, uh at a staff meeting, Pelley was fired by CBS News. What did he say? Uh when CBS fired Pelley, uh Bilton wrote a cover letter, which obtained by The New York Times, Bilton stated as follows, "Your and antipathy antipathy to the future of the show has come through loud and clear, and we have I have heard you. Therefore, write on behalf of CBS News Inc. to inform you that your employment with CBS is terminated for cause effective immediately." Next day, Weiss said, "I'm only interested in working in a newsroom that is built on trust and mutual respect." Okay. So, what did he say? Um Pelley accused the new CBS leadership of instructing him to insert falsehoods into a political story and to include assertions that were not verified, instructions he says he ignored. "The collapse of values at the top has become untenable. The leadership at 60 Minutes is no longer recognizable. Uh the principles I hold dear are gone, and so I must leave as well. I wonder what exactly they meant though by the falsehoods in a political story and including assertions that were not verified. >> Well, here it is. >> It says um the story CBS intervened on was a report about the 2026 protests in Minnesota and the falsehood CBS asked for was to describe protester Renee Good as driving her car toward the officer who killed her, which Pelley said contradicts video evidence of the event. That's correct. It It seemed to me that he was the lady was trying to turn the car away from him, >> but it did brush up against the guy, which is enough for him to decide to kill her. >> Well, I >> You know, it But it wasn't It was not she was trying to run him over. >> No, and I think it looks >> But however, that guy had been dragged by a car very recently. So, he's probably filled with PTSD, he almost died. I think he he got dragged like 300 300 uh yards rather. >> it's fair to ask at this point like >> 300 ft >> Yeah, but I think it's also fair to ask at this point like what is the media? Like what is the media? Like Right. All due respect to Ari Weiss, but like so it was a heavily inflated price for the for her blog that she sold and YouTube channel, whatever. It's clearly there's clearly a political agenda to this. You have billionaires that own all of these companies and we're we're asked to believe that like she's the most qualified for the job even though she's never ran a newsroom, she didn't like work her way up the ranks, she's an op-ed columnist and opinion writer and stuff like that. Great. She made a lot of sense, we said it before. Um and then she appoints hires this guy who's crying in a restaurant in Miami about his dad and it's like who the hell's that guy? So, I think it's fair to ask like do we have any trust left in these institutions? Do we have any trust left in like people that work there are leaving and saying I'm being asked to insert things into this that isn't true. >> Well, that alone, just that alone, like driving the car towards the officer. That's not That's just not technically correct. >> It seems like she was steering it away. Why would they want to say something that's not correct when you could just see it in a video? Like if you were running a newsroom, that would be the last thing you would want to do is contradict something that's obviously verifiable. So, that would For what reason would you sacrifice your credibility? Because that's essentially what it's doing. You're It's such a a short-term play. >> Yes, but I'll tell you exactly why. >> Because their main demographic is 70-year-olds who are having strokes on their couch. They're not verifying this. They're not They have a very old audience that is not online savvy. They're not looking at many angles. They're They're They're They have cataracts. And they're hearing this, and they it allows them to dismiss it as, "Well, she did the wrong You know, she drove Justifiable shooting." >> All right. >> Yeah, I I don't think they're >> somebody's motivating them to do that for those people. >> sure. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, well, because she's in the tank for Trump. Because Trump promised or maybe didn't promise, but like whatever, he's useful in the sense that he's going to go in and topple the regime in Iran. He's going to sue all these You know, or he's going to bring Harvard College to heel for whatever the hell they did. Um and you know, she believes that. And again, a lot of this is just connected to her her view that you know, Israel's interests are always 100% concurrent with America's. And Trump gets that, and he understands that. So, she's in the tank for Trump. Which by the way, if Biden would have invaded Iran, she would have started protecting him. It doesn't seem like it's She doesn't care that much about a ton of issues. It seems to be that this is her big issue. >> That's a the disturbing thing to a lot of people. Like, how much influence do they really have on this country? That's that's what creeps people out because I think no one even really considered it before October 7th. It wasn't I mean, I'm sure people considered it. Nick Fuentes considered it. But, it wasn't like it was an openly discussed thing amongst young people. >> It wasn't until we started realizing first of all, it was AIPAC. >> It was the um the weirdness of the New York City mayoral race. >> Yeah, of course. >> Very weird. Where they were all like, we're going to visit Israel. Like, what? >> Well, it was also in direct opposition to the stated goal of the Trump administration, which is to repair the United States and to make it great and to elevate it and to focus on the United States and to not go into Middle Eastern wars, which was a huge very popular plank of his platform and to not waste money and saddle ourselves with debt and mire ourselves in these unwinnable wars. And there was such a gaslighting campaign. The Secretary of State came out after Iran war and goes, "Well, Israel's going to attack them anyway and our bases were going to be vulnerable, so we had to join." And then he went, "No, I didn't mean that." I didn't really mean that. And we're partners and we both think it's a great idea and there was tremendous pressure on him to do this. >> And you know, it hasn't worked. And it's it's it's clearly not in the the interest of the United States to be in a Middle Eastern war with Iran. Tons of Jewish people don't believe it is. Lots of, you know, uh people from all walks of life don't believe it, but there's an ideological group of people that donate a lot of money and that are incredibly powerful and they are really pushing this. They're pushing troops and they're pushing nukes. >> And they're like, or non- you know, unconventional weapons like crazy bombing campaigns. They're pushing troops on the ground. They don't care what it takes. Iran has to be either completely destroyed or it's just got to be a chaos zone. But for the regional ambitions of Israel, they can't it can't exist. So I mean again and and not in a paranoid conspiratorial way because I don't like the victim stuff either. There's a bunch of people in America being like, I can't get ahead because Jewish people are successful. I think that's a stupid road to go down. That's a victim road. I hate that. I hate it I hate it when gay people do it or anyone any group of people I hate when they drench themselves in victimhood. I think when you become a victim you lose autonomy over your life. It's insane. But I do think there's a fair there's a fair question ask about what is you know what is the motive of of certain massive big donors? Is the motive the strength and prosperity of America or is it the strength and prosperity of Israel? That's a fair question. >> Yeah. And like what about the rest of the world? Like how how much are we putting ourselves at odds with the rest of the world? >> Indescribably the worst PR ever. And you know people cannot justify you know you've got to be a very ideological person to justify you know Southern Lebanon, Gaza, Iran, perhaps Turkey. This is starting to feel like this is like a friend you have who you make excuses for for a short amount of time and then your wife eventually goes, They're not allowed here. You can't go out with them. They've they're a problem. They have a up home life. I know they're fun. I know you share values. I know that you enjoy each other. You've known each other for a long time. But here's the deal. They're not coming to the house and they can't be around the kids. Because you know, that's what it's coming down to. >> What's even worse than that? The the thing that drives me crazy is the negotiators. When they get negotiators and they want to walk on them. >> They kill all the negotiators. They're killing their own deal. >> stop killing negotiators. >> And I mean stop bombing Lebanon. >> Is this Iran deal going to work? Is it going to work? You know. Stop bombing Lebanon. I I think we're at odds now. We're we're in the in the last 2 years we are now it's we're at odds with Israel for the first time where Trump is really at odds with them and he's had enough and I think he is starting to understand that his legacy will be permanently tainted if he doesn't find a way to extricate us from this war. And I think on on on the other side and that's and and Vance, again, for all the disagreements I might have with Vance about certain things, um he is the one of the only people in that administration who does push against the continuation of this war, which is why a lot of those neo-conservative donors try to destroy him. Because of that. I don't love his tech alliances. There's a lot of things I don't like about him. But there's a lot of things I think are good about him. I think there's and and it's not like I don't like about him per se. I worry about you know, some of his relationships. >> how many of these relationships you think are like necess- necessary for survival? >> I'm sure all of them are and that doesn't mean and they but they still need to be criticized and looked at and they should 100%. >> not justifying it at all, but I'm saying I I have a feeling like no completely autonomous person is ever going to make it through that maze. >> Never. Never. But I think the job is you turn the heat up enough where maybe if they everyone's going to do 10 horrible things, they do two. >> So, I think it's it's certainly the job of anyone who looks at this stuff to look at it and go, "Yeah, what is going on? What is happening?" But, I will say for all of the tech, you know, things that I find a little, you know, it's a little like, "What?" I do I do think that to his credit, he's the only one in there and you can tell and it's not that I I have some inside knowledge. They're only attack He's being attacked the most >> Mhm. >> by the people that want the war to continue. >> And I think he knows his political ambitions will be completely destroyed by a continuation of this war. So, I look at all these people not as human beings, even though they are human beings, but I look at them as like they're running the show, they're running the country, so they all have ambitions and it's hard to know their hearts or heads or how they feel from one day to the next. It's very difficult. >> So, I think when you look at them you look at them and you go, "Yeah, he's a he's calculated and ambitious, but he also is the one being attacked by people that want the war to continue. Tucker Carlson, who again, I have agreements with Tucker, I have disagreements with Tucker, he the attacks on him are insane. The attacks on Megan Kelly are wild because of this issue. It's not a myriad of issues, it's this issue. >> Yeah, undoubtedly. And it's weird. It's weird because it's so transparent. It's so transparent and the the whole world is seeing it play out and it's like the amount of gaslighting that you have to keep pumping. It's It's It's not sustainable. Like >> Well, to say that this was not in the interest this was in America's interest, you have to do you have to you have to jump around logically so much. >> Well, this is also the problem with the justification of what happened in Gaza. When people will try to say Israel like God was saying they they're doing the best they can. Look at the drone footage. Fly over that. If that's the best you can do, that's crazy. Like it's better Is that better than a nuke? Cuz I don't think it is. It's like it's >> It's inhumane. >> like the damage of a nuke just spread out over 2 years instead of one blast. >> It's inhumane. It's evil. It's children being killed. It's mothers being killed in front of their children. And by the way, October 7th was inhumane, but I shouldn't have to keep doing that. Do you know what I mean? >> have to do that, but it's also October 7th. You know, the people that got killed, those were the ravers, right? So those are the people that were anti-Netanyahu. Those Those are not the people that were >> They also killed I I think probably a lot of like Monday dragged people out of their houses. And you know, it's a bad situation there. >> It's also like why did it take so long to respond to that? >> Well, this is another very interesting, very important question. >> Because there's a lot of people that say it's a state the size of New Jersey and the security failures are they're they're pretty wild and there hasn't been a real investigation into And Netanyahu's kind of prevented that. And they've kind of made it illegal to question that in Israel. Like people were like writing about that and going what the hell's going on, but like >> It's illegal? >> Well, there was they've made a law and you can look this up about things like this in Israel because during wartime, they haven't had an They had an election? >> Since October 7th? Right? >> It's suspended because of the war, right? >> Right. And Ukraine hasn't had an Nobody's had an So if I'm living in a country and the leader of my country just wants to be in a war forever, there's no democracy? >> Well, you know, Clinton said that. Clinton said that about Netanyahu. He said he wants to maintain a war. I mean he said it openly in an interview. >> Right. And then a nice and then a nice chubby intern showed up. >> Oh, I wish. >> And a nice chubby intern showed up. >> internet and all these busybodies was around. He was the first guy to go viral. >> So I mean that's the thing. You don't You don't have elections. You don't have people looking into things. And by the way, that's not the only thing that should be looked into. Look into butt Look at everything. >> Where are the 9/11 docs? What happened? Can we know? Why can't we know anything? What Why can't we know anything? >> This is all of it. It's like >> Release all We're all adults. Release it. Let's see what happened. >> you think it's fine? >> I'm sure no one did anything naughty. >> I think this is all kind of breaking though. And I think that one of the things one of the things that's happening with AI is like all these things that they are protecting us from They're going We're going to find out that stuff. >> Well, here's the thing. I mean, I met you in 2019. I The first time I met you was 2018. Big Jay Oakerson was opening for you in Toronto. >> Yeah. Um but then I met you in 2019. And that's what, 6 years ago, 7 years ago? >> They were cracks of it breaking then, but almost invisible. Like you couldn't see them. Now, you have full-on like huge sinkholes opening into the reality that most people have accepted for their entire life. >> Big. >> Yeah, big. >> And you see like this Tulsi Gabbard this press release that she did this >> conference where she's talking about Fauci and what he did and all that. >> All that. >> I mean there's there's We're getting information now >> We're getting information. >> that let us know that the entire system has been completely corrupted for a long time. >> long time. >> For a very long time. It won't survive. Clearly can't survive the way we're in Is it 40 trillion dollars worth of debt? It's close. >> It was at 39. >> No one thinks that's getting paid back. >> Yeah, who we owe it to? Tell them to go off. >> Right. So, we have >> A lot of it is China. But like no one thinks that's getting paid back. >> The dollar as the world's reserve currency seems to have a a limited amount of time. I don't know, but this is what's discussed. Um No, I mean how does this system survive this level of information? People are not going to >> Do you think that this whole race to AI, this like Manhattan Project style race that's going on right now, like the future of whatever the United States is kind of depends on us getting there first? >> I think part of it is that >> get there first, then it's probably a wrap. If you really thought about it, like if China gets there first, if control of resources and everything's shut off, whatever how what if it's weaponized, like >> My worry is that in the guise of fighting China, we're going to become China. Yeah, that's true. >> I I would take the government a lot more seriously if they weren't you know, potentially having like like saying Palantir should merge all these different government databases. >> So, your health data and your criminal justice data and your tax data all merges. And who's doing that? Palantir. So, you go And then they go, "Well, China's got a credit score." Well, what the hell is >> What the HELL IS THIS? WHAT? >> RIGHT. >> SO, VANCE COMES OUT AND HE GOES, "I'm worried about a credit score." It's like, "Okay. Hey buddy, me too." What the hell is this? So, it's a little bit of gaslighting in that sense, too. They're like, "If China gets all this stuff, you're going to it'll we lose." And you go, "Okay." So, it's almost like China will enslave you. Let us do it first. >> Everyone's going to be on their best behavior. >> That's right. Everyone's going to be on their best behavior. We're going to be watching them. You heard that quote. behavior. This is what these the World Economic Forum people like that they don't have an interest in you owning a house or farming land or starting a business or they don't have any interest in that. There it does not serve them at all. It did for a while but their economic projection is that that's not going to be possible for you. So, what they're going to do, they're building bunkers, they're hoarding all the wealth and they're, you know, heavily invested in all this AI. And one of the reasons I think that we have to strike a deal with Iran is all this UAE money props up Hollywood, all these startups. It props up all the AI, a lot of it. A lot of that money's coming from Qatar and the UAE. And they're and and our base is getting blown off the earth in those countries. Those countries are getting attacked because of this war. And they're a huge financier of American startups and some AI startups. So, like one thing that I wonder about all of this is just how much this just does seem now to be a high-level chess game about the the future and what is and isn't possible. But, the only thing that makes me personally happy is that Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump just bought an island. That gives >> people are really excited. >> They're really excited. >> Did you see how they were celebrating in the streets? >> they burned the prime minister's house or the president or whoever. They would just start lighting houses on fire. And that's coming, by the way. They just did it in Belfast. That's coming. People starting to light things on fire is coming. That's coming. I'm not calling for it. I'm not saying it's good. But, it's coming because voting's become fake. >> Um no one cares. To you know, PEOPLE ON THREADS. IT'S FAKE. IT'S FAKE. IT'S SO OBVIOUS IT'S FAKE. IT'S ALL FAKE. SO, THE only And you know what? Again, I'm not calling FOR IT. IT'S BAD, but fire is real. If you ask the people of Palisades of Malibu and whatever, RIP. I like the Palisades, that stupid mall. I liked it, but this is real. People are going to start realizing that this all this technology has just been set up to give you this idea that you have some effect, and all the while Jared and Ivanka just go buy an island. That's what's happening. But maybe it's fine. >> Have you got any invites to any bunkers? No, they're not >> you'd feel differently if you did? >> I don't know. I wonder >> I've had invites to do interesting >> I've had invites to Thiel, and I've said no because I would I think, you know, he'd probably sit me down and go, "Listen to me, you fat You're going to shut your mouth." And I'd sit there and I'd go, No, I think it's I think if they were going to invite me, someone goes, "This is the guy who dressed up as Kristi Noem's husband with fake tits." And they go, "We can't have him here." But by the way, absolutely. Absolutely. If somebody said to me, "A few people are going to survive, and it's just going to be you and these people, and everybody else is going to die." It's tough. How fun would it be though? Is it fun? Is it fun if the whole world dies and I'm just sitting and having dinner with J.D. Vance and his wife? I mean, is that the With Peter Thiel, me and Usha, and J.D. just >> eating steak? >> Yeah, I mean, is that Is that what we want? I I know. >> Probably not. What's the best case scenario? >> The best case scenario is a new era of enlightened people and enlightened thinking and >> soulfulness and spirituality and a and a and a healthy attachment to technology and religion and you know, people's people's you know, a common kind of a sense of morality and togetherness and love for community that's not enforced by governments, corporations, and armies. >> I'm not betting on that. But that would be good. >> Well, there's a battle, right? >> Yeah, there is a battle. >> it's it's not like one side is clearly going to win. We're moving in a very weird direction of uncertainty, but humans today are way better at being people, way kinder and nicer, despite all our problems, than we have ever been in the past. >> Society is generally, at least in first world countries, safer than it's ever been in the past. >> And it's also there's more opportunity to do things now because of technology that's ever existed before. So, but this is it's not worse, but it's not moving in the best direction possible. Like if you had to choose between living today, the way we're living now, or living in 1976 in San Francisco, I'd be like, go yourself. I don't want to shitty brakes and live with these people that don't know anything cuz >> You'd you'd you'd better off living today. The communication you have is better than it was. >> Joplin. >> And you'd be smoking weed, and a burrito would be 50 cents, and then you would go into a park and and then die. And it might not be as bad as one thinks. And who knows? I didn't live during that time, so I'm sure there was a lot of pitfalls. You could get stabbed. Whatever. Like New York was more culturally interesting when there was crime. I'm against there being crime because New York couldn't have existed it it can't be 1983 in New York now. >> Times Square is a mall. Times Square right now is a TGI Fridays. >> But sure. >> to be >> It used to be chaos. But it can't be chaos forever. But again, in that city, do you get the Ramones? Do you get >> that stuff? Probably not. >> No, you need some chaos for art, for sure. You don't get You don't get chaos from TGI Fridays. You don't get that kind of chaos. >> But I do think that there's a time for certain things and there's an inertia that moves certain things forward, meaning like it would be crazy to think about New York in the '80s today. Like no one's built for that life today. >> No one's even built for that. Like one of the reasons that wars don't work anymore is but we're not built for it. We're not built We used to be built for war. People used to be built for war. They were built to like just like, "Yeah, I'm So like he calls me and I just go die." You know, there's like a petition on the door and it's like report here, we're going to war. People were built for Nobody's built for that now. People will file complaints with DoorDash. I file complaints. >> 1981 Rolling Stone magazine called West 42nd Street, located in the heart of Times Square, as the sleaziest block in America. >> Now it's probably prime real estate. >> Yeah, I mean listen, there's there's parts of it that are you know, it's all prime real estate there. Whether people like it or not, it's not necessarily you know, that it's better because it's safer, but it's worse because it's safer. Nothing's all one thing. Nothing's all one thing. There's still great art there, there's still great music and comedy and theater and all that stuff. Is it as good as it was? No. No. But again, it's just because the people that that that are are are doing it are amazing and they're and they're and they're talented, but like culture is so decentralized now and fractures it's nothing can stay cool. Everything that pop, you know, what's depressing me about New York is it's become like it's become a place where people just go on Instagram and post a you know, when you used to go to dinner in New York City, you would eat French food or food that could never make it home. You've never even seen. You didn't hear they would treat you like It was fun. Now you go to these places cuz Taylor Swift went there. You have like they they just do like a high-end version of a like a Totino's pizza roll. They put truffle oil on it. Here's a French dip. Here's a burger. People order burger. It's just a basic mall city now. That's really what it's become. That doesn't mean there's not a lot of psychopaths there making lots of money and good for them. But it's becoming a suburban city. It's a city where people talk about chicken salad. It's a city where people go to Wegmans. It's just a different city. It's Pilates and toddlers. It's all great. It's fine. I don't want to see people getting shanked, but it's not what it was. It's just not what it was. It doesn't have that same magic and nothing does. LA doesn't. Nothing really does. And it and it won't come back. >> No, I don't think it's coming back. I don't know if that's good or bad. If I live there I mean, who knows what the going to happen now with Mom Donny as mayor. I mean, that'll that weirdness where What's that guy's name? Ken Griffin? The guy who billionaire guy was in front of his apartment. Billionaire guy lives here. He's got so much money. We're going to take it. >> Well, they don't Well, here's the thing. It's all fake. It's all fake. Mom Donny's Trump. He's smart. He's sharp. He's good looking and young. He just This is all crap. It's YouTube. It's like, look, billionaire guy. Ken Griffin's in Palm Beach building a house worth a billion dollars. You're not going to do anything to Ken Griffin. YOU'RE A CITY EMPLOYEE. THE mayor is fake. Like it's like he'll raise taxes maybe if he can get it done, but he can't. It'll get dirtier. Crime will go up or it won't. It's kind of whatever. It It's just not, you know, I think it's not it's it's more just the corporations rule. And guys like him it's like Bernie Sanders, he's the version of the socialist you get. What does it even mean? He has a bunch of military industrial complex jobs in Vermont. Sweetheart of a man but has not gotten one god damn thing for 30 years. >> Worth millions, has three homes. >> has three homes. The Clintons sandbag him because they're working for God only knows who, the Goldman Sachs and the devil. And and he goes and says Hillary's great. They're all great. It's all great. The system's fine. I lost. He got sandbagged like twice. And he doesn't and he doesn't burn it to the ground. He won't burn it to the ground because that's the version of the socialist you get in America. And I'm not even like a socialist but I'm saying like that's clearly this is you throw the bone to placate someone. >> It's also they're playing a game and his game is to stay relevant, keep being a politician, keep being a senator from Vermont. You stay there forever. Everybody loves you. Ben and Jerry's, yeah. >> Vermont is a lily-white state. Uh of of >> frozen people >> frozen people and it's just a bunch of lesbians and I think Alec Baldwin now cuz he shot someone. >> Does he live there now? >> I think he does but I don't know. And I like him. Shout out to him. We've all moved on. But I think, you know, Sanders is doing what he has to do to please that demographic of people. >> What do you think happens in 2028? >> I think I think the donors want Rubio but Rubio's kind of a buffoon. >> Why do they want Rubio? >> Because he's not Vance is more isolationist than Rubio. And I think Vance is more in league with the tech people whereas Rubio maybe the central banking cartels of intergenerational pools of capital that are more invested in the war industry and might be slightly more aligned with Israel like Rubio. Like there are different fiefdoms of the super rich. I think the tech guys are relatively new. Not that they don't get involved in war, of course they do. But it's not all hunky-dory. You know, if you had a banking empire for years and centuries and you're like, "Now all these new tech are here." And you're like, "What is this?" And you're like, "We make our money with war." And so do the tech people, by the way, but they have other ways to make money. Um So, I I I I do think Vance will get the nomination. I don't think Rubio I used to think it would be Rubio. But I've watched Rubio recently more and I don't think Rubio he's he's he's he's he's too he's too he's I can't take him seriously. I don't know why. >> Trump again suggests a Vance-Rubio 2028 presidential ticket, or perhaps Rubio-Vance. >> So, this will It'll probably be those two. But do you think that people are going to want to buy into another Republican party? >> No, it'll be a Democrat. I think it'll be a Democrat. It'll be Who do you think wins? I don't know. I think it's somebody that we don't know who it is yet. I think it's somebody that we don't know who it is. I think I don't think it's Newsom. I don't think it's AOC. I think it's somebody that comes from a red state who's a Democrat governor, a purple state. We don't know who they are yet. They pop up. They're boring. I think we need boring. I think a boring person's going to come in and just be like, "Hey, I'm the president." >> Reasonable. >> The show's over. Michelle Obama's a woman. And then he a lot a few You'll hear some of the country go, "Huh." Because Trump's a drug and you've got to detox from that. And this whole last decade has been a drug and it's been the craziest decade that I've been alive. I remember sitting with you on election night. I remember me, you, and Alex sitting down. I remember all these things where we're watching these crazy part I remember the I remember when when Trump was shot. I remember you tragically when Charlie Kirk was shot. I remember all of these things that have happened that are just so crazy and now seems so far away and like they're so far in the past. >> Gavin Newsom >> They like this guy, Jon Ossoff. >> Who's that guy? >> Uh I just looked him up. I didn't know either. He's a youngest incoming senator out of Georgia. >> Yeah, he's having a moment. >> You just You just nailed it. You just nailed it. >> He could be him. Look at him. There he is. >> That looks like a president. >> Just put him in. Who cares? >> Yeah. His neck is medium. It's not too thin. >> He's got a medium neck. He's got that face >> Like people like his neck is a little too small. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've I've Yeah, that's probably true. >> A little bit more square-jawed. Conservative Georgia radio host endorses Jon Ossoff for US Senate. >> If they want to win, they they just have to go, "Hey, everybody, remember healthcare? Don't you want that?" >> Is he a Republican? >> He's a Democrat. >> He's a Democrat, but he's going to larp as a Republican in the same way that Spencer Pratt's like, "I'm actually a Democrat." You know what I mean? >> Worked as a national security staffer. >> Yeah, he's a spook. Put him in. Who cares? It's fake at this point. We all know it's fake. How much more evidence does anyone need? >> Jesus Christ, Tim Dillon. Sorry. Glad you're out there. >> I'm glad you you have me in here. >> Your podcast rules. >> Thank you, brother. I really appreciate Thank you. Just the way you're able to just combine reality with humor is very rare. >> Well, thank you, dude, for the way you're doing it. >> It's very It's It's It's a very unusual thing you're doing. It's very insightful political commentary and social commentary mixed in with hilarious takes on things that's very nihilist. >> Well, I'll keep doing it until I'm put in a jail. Thank you, brother. Appreciate it. Appreciate you. Bye, everybody.